P4P Harder puncher, Marvin Hagler or Sugar Ray Robinson?

You're being too analytical with this one, I think, McGrain. As you are wont to do.

 

Raw strength, it's probably Hagler (he was known, particularly early on, for having very heavy hands), but Robinson would sooner incapacitate an opponent with the extra speed and possibly leverage on the end of his punch.

 

Robinson...Hagler could impose his will because he was little bit stronger but Robsinson had one punch ko power.

 

Both could flatten anyone .. very comparable ...

 

Quick stinger/strong clubber...

Joe Louis: 50/50
Ray Robinson: 55/45
George Foreman: 25/75
Marvin Hagler: 35/65
Muhammad Ali: 75/25
Roberto Duran: 40/60

Hmm... This is my perception anyway.

 

Interesting.

I'd score Robinson less on strong clubber -he was more like Hearns -maybe 80/20. Ali was a HW with weight -so that 75/25 looks good to me.

The 50/50s are the dragons among them.

Tyson: 50/50
Julian Jackson: 50/50

Dempsey is interesting... 60/40?

 

I'm not too sure how to work this scale... Because 80/20 seems right, but not, for both Hearns and Robinson and a lot more guts behind their shots than Ali. I think Ali should be more like 95/5.

No, Ali: 90/10

Robinson: 70/30

It's hard because Robinson was a nine out of ten for speed, yet it looks like I don't give him such high marks for it.

Complicated thing, the science behind punching, even though we all know in our heads who is a more dangerous puncher than who.

 

I think Ray was an all time great puncher , he kod lots of strong middles like Turpin and Fullmer, Fullmer when he was 36 years old,I doubt Hagler would have flattened Fullmer.
Hagler is an great 160 pounder maybe better than Ray, but for me he is not in his class as a puncher.Ray was a man coming up from Welter, Hagler was a natural middle, some of whose best wins were over ex welters and light middles.

 

how would you rate Hearns, Zarate or Olivares out of curiosity?

 

Robinson, no doubt.

Hagler cold whack, but when did he ever prove it against far larger, iron chinned men like Sugar Ray did?

 

I don't know. Hagler was more of a banger and threw his guts in his punches. Robinson had more speed and technique though obviously

 

Don't know really, I was trying to think of a new, concise way to rate punching ability, but it gets a bit complicated when you get to Alexis Arguello. He wasn't a quick hitter, but he had the preciseness that's implied by 'quick stinger', and he wasn't a strong clubber either.

How about this?

(Strength is force of punch or 'moving power' including raw strength and leverage, but not necessarily wrestling strength, in which Armstrong would score higher. Intelligence can mean pacing, finishing and so on, but only regarding punching.)

Speed/strength/accuracy/volume/intelligence

Arguello: 4/9/9/6/8 - 36
Moore: 7/8/8/6/10 - 39
Louis: 8/9/9/6/8 - 40
Armstrong: 8/7/5/10/8 - 38
Saddler: 5/9/7/8/7 - 36
Robinson: 9/8/8/7/8 - 40
Tyson: 9/8/8/6/7 - 38
Williams: 9/9/7/7/6 - 38
Foster: 8/9/7/5/9 - 38

That seems to be about right? It's fairly consistent with my own ratings, the first tier featuring Louis, Robinson, Tyson, Armstrong, Williams, Moore and Foster.

 

We also have to consider such things like timing, distance, and technique.