P4p Head to head, top 10 boxers ever?

atsch

Whitaker, oscar, Mosley, Trinidad, hell even prime Vargas would give Floyd FITS. All these guys would beat Floyd prime for prime exception of Vargas but wouldn't be surprised Vargas takes him out late. Guys like Winky, Forrest, Quartey would all give him hell too. Floyd is NOT better than these guys, hes one of them thriving in an era of chumps.

 

I think the Mayweather, Jones, and Whitaker listings are missing some key points:

We're talking head-to-head against any fighter ever. Not against only Latin-American pressure fighters and public employees.

Jones: Looked great against a lot of bums, but also looked great against Toney. But Toney was a very specific style of fighter. Jones looked awful against Griffin and was annihilated by Tarver and Johnson. I think if you put a normal human chin on Roy Jones he makes the list easily, but you know he's going to be in with the best of the best and that chin he's got is gonna get smashed. I just can't rank a guy p4p if he relied on outclassing weak opponents who had no hope of hitting his go-to-sleep button.

Whitaker: Admittedly very very good, but there's a reason he had controversial fights against Ramirez, ODLH, and Chavez. He didn't have the punch to hurt people or the style to clearly win rounds. And the fact that older, slower guys like ODLH/Chavez could make it close well past their primes is not a good thing. Whitaker was very good and maybe if he had some power he could make the list. I feel similarly about Pep, who was excellent but has a thin resume and not quite the type of power to keep a real world-class opponent at bay.

Mayweather: Again, cutting it close with Castillo, Maidana, and shot-to-pieces ODLH is not a good look. MOST fighters can look good against opponents they enjoy a tremendous speed advantage over. But Mayweather hasn't tested himself against many guys who present a difficult style matchup. I find it hard to imagine he would be successful against many of the guys he ducked/didn't duck in his own era, let alone all time. Plus his power is a bit lacking, which is one less way for him to win a fight if he fails to win his customary 7 rounds.

If I'm making a team of fighters to put up against anybody they'll need reasonable defense/punch resistance, a very high ring IQ, bottomless conditioning/high workrate, and good-to-amazing power. They need to be able to win by outworking a better opponent, taking or avoiding the best shots off skilled power punchers, or simply ending the fight by knocking anyone in the world out.

 

Hagler only ever beat 1 champ and he was hardly an ATG fighter so this thing about beating the man is a non starter for me.

 

Floyd would have beaten Trinidad. Trinidad looked terrible against movers.

 

RJJ beat Toney, Hopkins, Virgil Hill, McCallum, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, and Ruiz.

 

Do you have dissocitative identity disorder?:think

 

On Whitaker, the only thing that was controversial about the Ramirez and Chavez fights were the scorecards - he clearly won both fights. As for Oscar, he fought on even terms with a peak De Le Hoya when he was past his best and had a drug habit. I'd hardly hold that against him.

 

atsch....health would still be first priority in Floyd's dream.

 

But trinidad WOULD land punches. Some of those shots he landed on oscar (mind you very few) would have Floyd hurt. Of course Floyd could outbox Tito, but Tito would get punches in and don't believe floyd can withstand those bombs. I mean, take a look at Maidana. tito would have KO'd maidana inside 6 rounds, and Maidana still managed to land shots that wobbled Floyd, and Maidana has worse feet and slower hands than Tito.

 

I have no quarrel with either Floyd or Manny being p4p h2h among the greatest. I think they're both very beatable, but you're going to have to go thru hell to do it.

Sal Sanchez
Erik Morales
Finito Lopez
Pernell Whitaker
Roberto Duran
Ray Robinson
Marcel Cerdan
Charlie Burley
Ray Leonard
Mike McCallum

All these guys had great chins and on their best days were unbeatable.

 

rjj, srr, srl, duran, whitaker, moore, jk chang, jofre.

those 9 seemed out in front so no need to force a #10

 

The Toney fight is the only one that's impressive.

-McCallum was old and years past his last decent performance.
-Hill was semi-retired, never really had any great wins himself, and had already lost to Michalczewski.
-Gonzalez was not really that good.
-Ruiz was terrible.
-Hopkins was extremely green. A year later he drew with Mercado, and he didn't really have a significant win until he stopped Johnson 4 years later.
-Even Toney was struggling so badly at the weight that he was sluggish in the fight.

Jones simply wasn't tested at the level one would typically require for judging him on an all-time h2h basis. As with Mayweather, questions will always remain as to how he would perform against a number of his contemporaries, let alone the best of all time.

But if you put a real chin on him I'd have no problem listing him.