P4P Lists for the 1800s

Peter Jackson? Kid McCoy?
Packey McFarland?
Packey McFarland, Mike Gibbons, Harry Greb?

Idiotic lists, and I didn't even start debating the placements.

 

Seeing as the term p4p was coined to exhalt Ray Robinson, I doubt you'll find any from the 1800's.

 

This isn't true. Referee Charlie White claims Tommy Ryan was the P4P best he'd seen much earlier than that.

 

McFarland is notable by his absence. McAuliffe is overrated (Ryan>McAuliffe easily IMO)

 

Not answering the question, but adding my two pence; when I did my first top 100 pound for pound list in 2003; I partly worked of this: In fact looking at them lists, some of that might of been mine...

Top 10 fighters from 1891-1900

10 Pedlar Palmer
9 Jack Dempsey
8 James J Corbett
7 Peter Jackson
6 Young Griffo
5 Terry McGovern
4 James J Jeffries
3 Jack McAuliffe
2 Bob Fitzsimmons
1 George Dixon

Mentions:

Billy Plimmer, , Billy Murphy, Ben Jordan, George Lavigne, Joe Walcott, Tommy Ryan, Mysterious Billy Smith, Kid McCoy and John L Sullivan

Top 10 fighters from 1901 to 1910

10 Tommy Ryan
9 Jim Driscoll
8 James J Jeffries
7 Joe Walcott
6 Stanley Ketchel
5 Terry McGovern
4 Jack Johnson
3 Sammy Langford
2 Abe Attell
1 Joe Gans

Mentions:

Owen Moran, Jimmy Walsh, Ben Jordan, Young CorbettII, Battling Nelson, Jack Sullivan, Billy Papke, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jack O’Brien and Tommy Burns

Top 10 fighters 1911 to 1920

10 Jim Driscoll
9 Harry Wills
8 Jack Johnson
7 Benny Leonard
6 Freddie Welsh
5 Jack Britton
4 Ted Lewis
3 Georges Carpentier
2 Johnny Kilbane
1 Jimmy Wilde

Mentions:

Kid Williams, Pete Herman, Abe Attell, Ad Wolgast, Dixie Kid, Mike Gibbons, Les Darcy, Mike O’Dowd, Sammy Langford, Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky, Sam McVey, Joe Jeanette and Jack Dempsey


Top 10 fighters 1921 to 1930

10 Sammy Mandell
9 Harry Wills
8 Jack Dempsey
7 Al Brown
6 Tommy Loughran
5 Gene Tunney
4 Pancho Villa
3 Harry Greb
2 Mickey Walker
1 Benny Leonard

Mentions:

Jimmy Wilde, Fidel la Barba, Johnny Kilbane, Johnny Dundee, Kid Kaplan, Benny Bass, Tony Canzoneri, Bat Battalino, Pinkey Mitchell, Jackie Berg, Jack Britton, Joe Dundee, Jackie Fields, Tiger Flowers, Georges Carpentier, Jack Delaney and Maxie Rosenbloom

Top 10 fighters 1931 to 1940

10 Jimmy McLarnin
9 Jackie Berg
8 Benny Lynch
7 Billy Conn
6 Tony Canzoneri
5 Mickey Walker
4 Barney Ross
3 Maxie Rosenbloom
2 Joe Louis
1 Henry Armstrong

Mentions:

Midget Wolgast, Jackie Brown, Little Dado, Al Brown, Kid Chocolate, Baby Arizmendi, Freddie Miller, Joey Archibald, Jackie Fields, Lou Ambers, Fritzie Zivic, Charley Burley, Gorilla Jones, Marcel Thil, Freddie Steele, John Henry Lewis, Max Schmeling, Max Baer and James J Braddock

Top 10 fighters 1941 to 1950

10 Jake LaMotta
9 Rinty Monaghan
8 Sandy Saddler
7 Manuel Ortiz
6 Joe Louis
5 Ezzard Charles
4 Ike Williams
3 Charley Burley
2 Willie Pep
1 Ray Robinson

Mentions:

Jackie Paterson, Vic Toweel, Sammy Angott, Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery, Tippy Larkin, Fritzie Zivic, Red Cochrane, Tommy Bell, Tony Zale, Rocky Graziano, Marcel Cerdan, Gus Lesnevich, Freddie Mills, Archie Moore and Billy Conn

Top 10 fighters 1951 to 1960

10 Floyd Patterson
9 Carmen Bassilio
8 Jimmy Curruthers
7 Kid Gavilan
6 Rocky Marciano
5 Pascual Perez
4 Joe Brown
3 Sandy Saddler
2 Archie Moore
1 Ray Robinson

Mentions:

Dado Marino, Alphonse Halimi, Willie Pep, Hogan Kid Bassey, Davey Moore, Carlos Ortiz, Don Jordan, Bobo Olson, Gene Fullmer, Joey Maxim, Harold Johnson, Jersey Joe Walcott and Ingemar Johansson

Top 10 fighters 1961 to 1970

10 Dick Tiger
9 Nicolino Loche
8 Bob Foster
7 Jose Napoles
6 Vincente Saldivar
5 Muhammad Ali
4 Nino Benvenuti
3 Carlos Ortiz
2 Eder Jofre
1 Emile Griffith

Mentions:

Pone Kingpetch, Fighting Harada, Lionel Rose, Ruben Olivares, Davey Moore, Sugar Ramos, Flash Elorde, Ismael Laguna, Duilio Loi, Benny Paret, Luis Rodriguez, Curtis Cokes, Ki-Soo Kim, Joey Giardello, Carlos Monzon, Willie Pastrano, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier.

 

So Packey McFarland never existed? Arguably P4P #1 from 1908 until the end of 1913.

 

McFarland's one loss might not even be true, but even if we're saying it was, that is no way to rank fighters!

Pretty sure that Young Griffo was robbed against McAuliffe anyway.

Senya knows.

 

Technically, McAuliffe has a loss to Philadelphia Tommy Ryan. The referee awarded the decision to the latter, even if by mistake, not having understood the conditions of the fight.
Also McAuliffe should have had a loss to Jem Carney by disqualification. Regardless, McAuliffe and McFarland fought in different decades.

 

I didn't mention that as McAuliffe dropped Ryan and was supposed to have gotten the better of it.

What sources have you read on the Griffo fight?

And era's aside, don't you agree that McFarlands long winning streak was far superior to McAuliffe's? I certainly believe so.

 

Here's what Griffo had to say after he saw McFarland whip Owen Moran:

"McFarland is about the fastest man I've ever seen," exclaimed the Australian after the bout. "He's got a great head and knows more about real boxing than any of the lightweights of the present day. The strongest point I noticed was his speedy footwork. He was all over the ring, in and out, and he would have puzzled any man. I am sure that Packy would have held him own with the lightweights I used to box. That is to say he would have outpointed a lot of them and would have stalled off the others.

"I remember Kid Lavigne when he was champion. I boxed a 25 round draw with him once and had no trouble in blocking his attack. But Lavigne wasn't as fast as McFarland in getting around the ring. He rushed all the time and tried to land a knockout blow, paying very little attention to the defensive part of the game. He never could be called a boxer, and in the case of Frank Erne, who won the title from him, I believe Lavigne's defeat was due to this reason. Erne was a first class boxer, but he wasn't a hard hitter, not so hard as McFarland and Packy cannot be called a slugger. Gans was about the cleverest of the lightweights and a great fighter too. I remember Spike Sullivan, Kid McPartland, Jack Everhardt, Horace Leeds, Charley McKeever, Dal Hawkins, George McFadden and other first class lightweights and I can say that all of them were better men than the ones now before the public barring McFarland, of course.

"I shall never forget the bout I had with Jack McAuliffe at Coney Island. He was the lightweight champion then and regarded me as an easy mark. But I out pointed him fairly and should have received the referee's decision by right. The referee, however, tried to keep track of the blows landed and they say he got mixed. At any rate he decided in favor of McAuliffe and there was a big howl. If I had been named the winner of that affair I'd have been the champion and it might have changed my whole life. It was a hard blow for me and I soon lost heart. That was the beginning of the end. I've been through a lot since then, but the training I did when a young fellow probably kept me from dying. At any rate I am trying to begin all over again and I hope I can still make a livelihood out of the boxing game."

 

Great read, thanks mate.

 

Also, Pancho Villa is well overrated. Genaro mastered him three times, and there was an outcry when Villa received the title shot against (shot) Wilde over Genaro.

Labarba was the greatest flyweight of the 20s.