P4P Matchup 1: Joe Louis vs Pernell Whitaker

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Jun 5, 2024.


  1. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thought that this was a fun idea. What if we took fighters from different divisions and matched them up together assuming they were the same size ? It gives a much bigger variety of potential matchups and makes things a lot more interesting.

    Obviously, a Heavyweight like Louis operates much differently than a Lighweight like Whitaker due to size. So I'll just pick an in-between division for the P4P matchup, and in this case it will be at Middleweight. How that would affect each fighter is up to interpretation.

    Would a Middleweight Joe beat a Middleweight Pernell ?
     
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  2. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Is this assuming size parity? If it is then easy win for Whitaker. Much better and more skilled boxer plus he was a mover who Louis struggled with along with being slick as hell as well a being a southpaw as well as being underrated on the inside. Honestly any heavyweight will probably lose against a lighter fighter if there was size parity lighter fighters tend to be much better skill wise.
     
  3. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yes, size is equal. Keep in mind that Louis is far lighter here, and thus much faster of foot and hand. He already had great hand speed at HW, and it gets amplified here, but his power decreases (He's still a murderous puncher, but for MW standards). Whitaker on the other hand is a beat slower now, but has a bit more pop in his punches.

    I don't necessarily agree with your last statement. Lighter fighters do tend to be more skilled, but guys like Louis are an exception. He would be great at any weight. He is arguably the finest offensive machine in Boxing history, period. Across all divisions. Which is why I put him with arguably the greatest defensive wizard the sport has ever seen.
     
  4. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I don't think it would be enough Whitaker is just too slick and Louis always struggled with movers plus whitaker beat plenty of power punchers and great offensive fighters whereas Louis has never beat someone as slick as Whitaker
     
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  5. Pedro_El_Chef

    Pedro_El_Chef Active Member Full Member

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    Louis beat plenty of movers, plenty of times.
     
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Whitaker would win.

    Louis was an economic fighter, and only liked to throw when he was certain he'd land. He struggled against those who could move enough out of the way of his power shots, and chose to walk them down with the jab until he was in range consistently enough to stop them.

    Whitaker would be the best mover he ever fought, and even better at positioning than Louis. He'd never be in a position to throw the right, and Whitaker was a mover who could jab with Louis, something he's seldom used to.
     
  7. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    He struggled with them though and none of them were as good as Whitaker
     
  8. AntonioMartin1

    AntonioMartin1 Jeanette Full Member

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    He did but he struggled at least with Billy Conn in part one.

    i see it two ways: Louis by ko or Whitaker by comfortable decision.
     
  9. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ditto. The southpaw stance would make it even harder for him to set. He'd have to throw the right across himself and that would put him in perfect positions to get countered by Whitaker. I think Louis has the smarts to probably be able to position himself to throw the left hook, especially if Pernell consistently retains lead foot dominance. That said, I think Pernell would foresee such tactics and act accordingly.

    Louis' best chance IMO is to send Pernell to the corner and alternate between fighting in the pocket and hitting him with combinations from mid range there, kinda similar to how Duran fought Leoncio Ortiz. Duran managed to catch Ortiz with some good right hands while moving to the right by moving with his left foot first, which benefits a fighter offensively. Ortiz took notice and started going almost exclusively to his right as Duran was moving to his own right, making him unable to catch him with those right hands. Duran then took Ortiz to the ropes/corners from round 4 onwards and brutalized him there, since he didn't give Ortiz the necessary space for him to work. Louis would be in a similar spot, methinks. But Pernell was also very adept at infighting, so Joe would have to mix things up. But managing to do that against Whitaker is easier said than done.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2024
  10. Pedro_El_Chef

    Pedro_El_Chef Active Member Full Member

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    He went 8-0 with 6 Kos against the best movers he faced, how much trouble they gave him has been overblown.
    Most heavyweight atgs had a lot more trouble with guys like that yet Louis gets singled out.
    I don't know how Conn compares to Whitaker but if Conn is nowhere near him then the guy must make Robinson look like a third rater.
     
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  11. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Well if movers give you trouble and you're fighting one of the best movers ever then the odds don't really favor you lol
     
  12. Pedro_El_Chef

    Pedro_El_Chef Active Member Full Member

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    He did knock out one of the best movers ever though so it evens out.
     
  13. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    I’m going with Louis. Roger “The Black Mamba” Mayweather froze Whitaker to his boots and dropped him with a laser of a strait right. Louis even with the rules here punches harder than Roger and is an absolute offensive machine and when he clips you it’s game over!! Louis by come from behind KO.
     
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  14. Ney

    Ney Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Do people even watch Whitaker’s fights? He is not a, “mover.” To hear him described here you’d imagine a Lightweight Muhammad Ali. He was a brilliant & staggeringly unconventional defensive master, & I’d favour him here, though I do think Louis is 200% a live opponent with a legit shot at a KO.
     
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  15. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Who was way smaller then him lol