Does the p4p ranking make midgets sleep well at night? To me it looks like the speed and technical ability's of lighter fighters do get to much credit compared to the power, chin, and toughness the heavyweights need. People say like.. "Imagine what would have happened if that lightweight had been a heavyweight. He would have boxed circles around those guys." Still if the lightweight had been more then 200 pounds it is impossible he would still have the same speed. Now if Muhammad Ali for instance would have been a Middleweight he would also be faster, more agile, and therefore look even better. So why not make him p4p #1?
There is some reverse snobbery as regards the heavier weights in a p4p sense. But everybody knows the lightweight in question in your hypothetical would not have the same speed if he were 200lbs. That's just gravity. So the lighter fighters tend to be more co-ordinanted
You're correct about this!!! It's also true that it's easier to jump around the lower weight classes...which is seen as favourable when considering p4p candidates!!! I really really do not like Wlad...I find him boring and I want someone to beat him!!! But he does now deserve to be in the P4P top 10 in my opinion. How we rate Chad Dawson higher when it's clear that he's the main man in an equally weak division is beyond me!!! I now have Wlad at #10.
Heavyweight is the only weight where there can be a big disparity in weight between two fighters and that makes it hard to give them a p4p ranking imo. At most weights if a fighter had beat as many contenders as Wlad he would be in the P4P list, however weak the division is; but the fact is Wlad has had a size advantage over most of them. That isn't his fault but it makes the question of how he'd look if he was 175lb fighting Dawson or Hopkins difficult to answer.
That's interesting and it reminds me of a thread I started last weak... The example I gave is would it be fair to rank Haye (215lb) above Valuev (315lb) P4P even if you thought Valuev would win H2H???
You could argue yes because it would be like Jean Pascal fighting Issy Vasquez in terms of weight difference and Pascal would win even though Vasquez is better P4P. Or you could argue no because they are in the same division and so legitimate opponents. That is why P4P rankings simply don't work with the heavyweights imo, as far as I know the phrase was invented by Sugar Ray Robinson fans and has always been more for the weights other than heavyweight - it kind of gives them a title to aim for which is almost as prestigeous as the heavyweight champion of the world.
One can take something away from guys like Klitscko and Valuev since they are super heavyweights therefore mostly fighting smaller guys. Still as far as Klitschko goes he has very good agility, speed, and boxing skills for a guy his size. If Klitschko would be a middleweight he would be faster then Abraham or Pavlik I guess.
It's an interesting thing. The list is skewed towards guys for whom it's easier to jump around in weight. No way Dawson is on any P4P list ahead of Wlad IMO. David Haye, for instance, could have made the list with a win over Wlad having been undisputed Cruiserweight Champ and then moving up and beating a top HW.
If a guy wins in multiple weight classes that will add to his legacy. Still a fighter with certain tools might be successful and unbeatable in one weight class but have no chance at another weight class because he lacks the tools to succeed there. A guy with a lot of speed and agility might be a great flyweight, lighweight, and have some succes at welterweight. Still if he has no punch resistance/chin he would never be able to have succeed at heavyweight. Not even if he was a bigger version of himself.
P4P attempts to make it possible to translate overall ability over different weight classes. The problem with this is that each fighter has trained and honed his technique to work with a certain set of attributes. There is no way that Wlad would fight so upright, just working the jab and backing off in straight lines if he were at 147 and did not have the height advantage. He would be a completely different fighter in terms of technique and style, never mind speed, power etc.. The same goes for someone like Cotto, his style works well, but if he were a heavyweight and tried the same thing then he would probably find that his defence is too porous and would be KOed quite often (even with a proportionate increase in punch resistance) due to the greater disparity between power and chin the higher up the weight classes you go. To summarise: Fighters have trained for their attributes, so it is impossible to envisage what they would be like in significantly different weight classes.
So why even compare them in a p4p ranking? And let me put it this way... Would a fighter being 6'7'' weighing 240 lbs being undisputed heavyweight champion having a record of 54-0 with 52 by KO, and having 20 title defenses be p4p #1?
But it isn't this anymore!!! I personally believe that Nonito Donaire is the best fighter in boxing!!! I think he has the P4P skills to beat anyone right now...but I have to rank Pac, JMM etc ahead of him beacause of their multiple titles at multiple weights and who they've beaten!!! Any list with Donaire on top would be laughed at!!! It's the same historically, people would think you're a joke if you don't put SRR P4P#1...but to me if you think Willie Pep or RJJ had better P4P abilities, I don't agree but don't have a problem with it!!! What I think originally started as a personal preference has become a victim of snobbery, and there's not little room to move when talking about P4P!!!!
