P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

Actually, the tenor of your posts regarding Ali confirm that you are not open to discussing it with an open mind. The short answer is that in my opinion, the following fighters were greater than "The Greatest"...

1. Greb
2. Robinson
3. Armstrong
4. Charles
5. Duran
6. Moore
7. Walker
8. Benny Leonard
9. Pep
10. Burley
11. Ross
12. Ali

By my calculations, Ali is the greatest heavyweight. He is not near the greatest fighter who ever lived.

 

I'm going to expand on my earlier comments now. Notice i've already said that when commenting on who i think were the best fighters ever, is not directly representative of who i rate as the greatest. Anyway, from film, the three best fighters ever for me are Robinson, then Ali and Duran. That's how good Ali was in my opinion. I'm not particularly a fan either, not at all actually. That's an unbiased opinion. There's nothing else i can say on it though, i said earlier on this thread that when it comes to me simply saying who the best were, it's not backed up by resume, it's utlimately an opinion, and i can't justify that, so there's no point in me debating it. Just an opinion. A pretty strong one. Anyway, when it comes to greatness, the likes of McLarnin etc need looking up. And anyone who has Willie Pep in their list and not Ali must have an agenda.

 

You've STILL not given me an answer. What does Duran have that puts him so far ahead of Ali?

 

And I'm not being a dick about Duran. He's undeniably great. I just think he's more or less on a par with Ali (I rate Ali higher).

 

It's not that he's far away, there just happens to be 6 men in between.

 

I agree.

 

I agree with this as well. If you see 6 men in between that's fine, because there are at LEAST 6 men in the running and worthy. But any talk of him not being on the level as a fighter is crazy imo and elitist-agenda driven.

 

And what do you suppose that "agenda" would be?

 

Why should he say anything to you? It's you who challenged his position, and it's your job to make the case why you believe Ali is greater (or on par). Perhaps then you will get a response.

No offense but most of the posts I've seen of you are pretty much "call-outs" on other posters without any actual boxing discussion involved. It's very, very easy to state that others are wrong and that Ali>>>>>>>Duran or so on. Many posters here deal with that on a daily basis and are not going to elaborate on their views every single time someone disputes them, unless it's worth their time.

If you want to read why Stonehands89 holds Duran in high regard, read his "God of War" article on Duran.

 

You think he's overrated due to hype - you said as much yourself.

 

I just highlighted it in post 172, that's the way it seems to me anyway, either that or favouritism.

 

I've said already. Ali has the better list of wins (in my opinion), Duran has the better single win, and a comparable list of wins, and I don't see a marked difference in talent based on film. I think if one is to have Duran in a top ten, Ali should be there also. I'm yet to hear a refutal.

 

The Duran argument i don't know about, it's there or there about. But Pep? He's getting a pass the way i see it. No doubt i'll be bombarded with an over-dramatised post detailing how amazing Pep was, which i'm well aware of, being a student of boxing history myself. He's one of the best ever, head to head and for ability. But when we're talking resume that solidifies your ranking, i don't understand Pep>Ali, it's madness to me. People have a problem with Ali's high ranking, i'm very suspicious as to whether that is born of Ali's fame, because it looks like Pep's getting the free pass on this board.

 

No one's ducking you, so take it easy. I have a list of the top 25 that was generated via a system of criteria. The top 10 are pretty stable, the rest somewhat.

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-25 points-
Experience: 24

-15 points-
Ring Generalship: 14
Longevity: 14
Dominance: 13

-10 points-
Durability: 9
P/LO: 9
Intangibles: 5

TOTAL: 88

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-25 points-
Experience: 20

-15 points-
Ring Generalship: 14
Longevity: 11
Dominance: 14

-10 points-
Durability: 8
P/LO: 5
Intangibles: 9

TOTAL: 81

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There's mine.

Now, let's see your criteria, because I am sure that a man of such adamant opinions will have a well-thought out presentation as to why Ali places higher than men with far more fights in superior divisions.

 

And what if someone thinks Duran had a better list of wins, a better single win and was a more complete fighter? Would that make the person a "nuthugger" or a "fanboy"?

I'm not saying I necessarily think that, but I can see a person not being overly impressed by the likes of Foreman, Liston, Quarry, Ellis and others, skill-wise. The heavyweights aren't everybody's bread and butter.