P4P, who has had the best DEFENCE this past 20 years???

Yup...exactly like that for the top three.

Others that deserve mention are Byrd, Jones, Calderon, Wright, Toney (regardless of him being overrated, his defense is stellar), etc.

 

thanks i was unsure on how i only picked roy, thought he was great defense fighter,

 

good pick with calderon there man :good

 

sweet pea by a country mile

 

Ivan gets such a bum rap with people because of the division he has fought in his entire career...but when you take into account how much smaller he is then pretty much everyone he has ever been in the ring with AND the fact that he has less power then my 3 year old daughter...his defensive merits stand on their own.

If I had to make a top 5 list tho...and why...it would look like this.

1 - Whitaker - Clear number 1 here. He is the consensus #1 all time almost everywhere you look, so I think trying to argue someone against him in the past 20 years is pretty much an uphill battle. His reflexes and body movement were something we will probably never see again. I wont get too in detail, but his defense (along with most of the rest of his game) was simply amazing...

2 - Hopkins - The way he tucks his chin the entire fight, always ready to absorb anything that by a matter of a miracle happens to land clean is beautiful. His defensive footwork, movement and use of angles are among the best the sport has ever seen (and when you combine that with his ATG accuracy and timing, it explains why many consider him one of the best counterpunchers ever). Also, there is something so subtle, but so amazing that he does, it kinda sets him apart from most...and that is something that was pointed out to me by a poster named McGrain (SHOUTOUT TO MBF!!! LOL!). Hopkins footwork allows him to get back into a defensive pocket faster than anyone I have ever seen. He attacks and before the opponent is able to mount their attack, he is in perfect defensive position, both technically and from a foot placement standpoint. Its really a thing of beauty. As much as I feel Whitaker is head and shoulders above Bernard...he is just about that much above the rest.

3 - Mayweather - His speed is really what sets him apart. He is able to keep the opponent off balance by continuously moving and staying in a defensive posture. Another thing I love about Floyd's defense is, when he gets backed into the ropes (something that happens all too often for me to put him up with the likes of Whitaker and Hopkins), he is always at an angle to make it difficult for his opponent to really ever hit him clean...and with his fantastic reflexes, he is able to block most shots thrown anyway. Again, Floyd is near perfect defensively, but his propensity to get caught on the ropes (sometimes even willingly) knocks him a bit back on the list.

4 - Wright - Technically perfect from a shell defensive standpoint. Able to block almost everything thrown at him with either his gloves or his arms. Best part about it is, his defense is completely based on technique and not speed or reflexes...which not only bodes well for him being able to fight for a long time (Williams is just a freak of nature...dont blame Winky for getting hit alot by him...I mean, he still blocked like 700 shots LOL!), but also allows him to base his offense completely off of his defense by shooting that stellar jab from behind the guard and working of of that. The only problem with Winky's defense is, he is vulnerable to the body and his footspeed is SLOW, so he can rarely dictate a pace if the opponent is faster, busier (Williams on both counts) or stronger (Hopkins).

5 - Toney - Best ever in the pocket. In close, his defense is phenominal. Always at an angle to prevent a clean shot. Always keeps his chin tucked and because of his angle, always ready to use his fantastic shoulder roll to lessen the impact of anything that lands. Also, in the pocket is able to counter very effectively off of his defensive stance or out of his shoulder roll. Problem with James is, his footwork has always been lackluster (hense why he is an entirely different fighter on the inside than out) and his movement is very slow...plodding at times if from a distance. Meaning, a fighter who can dictate the distance and pace will always give him trouble.

HM (in order IMO) - Jones, Calderon, Byrd, Guzman, Spinks.

Too young to tell, but wow - Timothy Bradley, Andre Ward, Joshua Clottey, Guillermo Rigondeaux, Paul Williams (his defense has gotten 1000x better...which is scary), etc.

 

Whitaker n Mayweather

 

He was a guy who was never going to last at Middleweight, as evidenced by his constant weight issues all the way up past heavyweight.

Take a look at the guys who he has fought, none of them are real workhorses except RJJ, who clowned him and made him look like he had **** defense.

Load of elite fighters? Load of bull**** more like.

The myth that is James Toney astonishes me - he's a solid ****er with a good chin who knows how roll inside sloppy punching. He's never done it when it counts and unlike Pernell, Floyd, Bernard and even Jones Jr - they used their defense to position themselves to counter attack against ANYONE.

Toney? **** off, he couldn't even work out how to defend against the sloppy Peter.

 

:good

 

i agree with the whitaker-mayweather-toney group. hopkins gets honourable mention

 

McCallum was well past it, still held him to a draw - McCallum got spanked against Jones Jr not too far past that, too.

Nunn and Johnson? B-Listers. Toney got beat twice by another B-Lister in Montell Griffin who got destroyed twice by RJJ (although only one would count) solely because Griffin wasn't stupidly allowing Toney to enact his gameplan.

Toney is a good boxer, HOF worthy and he'll get there with the wins he has. But he's the most over-rated fighter of the 90s in my view, he didn't get the wins against the guys to be considered great.

Thinking he's great because he can go from 160 to 200 and still beat old, past it fighters? What happened against Sam Peter? A sloppy guy that someone like Bernard Hopkins would have torn apart.

Personally - I think Floyd beats Williams, I just don't think he should fight Williams. There is a difference between being a HW fighter and knowing your opponents weight and being a WW fighter and going in against a SMW.

 

In terms of overall effectiveness, Pernell Whitaker.

In terms of defensive skill and technique, James Toney.

 

Very good post :good