p4p who is better?

Yeah, that is a strange notion. As is the idea that his mental toughness came during that lay-off.

Foreman at least underwent a transformation psychologically in many ways during his voluntary lay-off, Ali just lost some of his amazing physical gifts during his enforced one.

 

Ali's style changed post-exile, which helped him defend himself better:

better balance on feet
better rolling with punches
hands kept up more time
improved holding (younger version preffered to dance away, than go into a clinch)
rope-a-doping (which improved balance further)
more mature and stable psychologically (mental toughness)

His chin didn't improve much, he just learned how to protect it better against punches you don't see.

 

Ali's toughness was always there, just that no one pre-67 was good enough to make him need it. Chuvalo pressed him hard and Liston probably gave him the most nervous fight of his life, but he never backed down.

Head to head both were untouchable in their primes, but Ali's resume is much, much better.

 

I'm going to start boycotting Rooster's posts and threads. Anyone willing to join me?


THE MAN IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME FOR EVERYONE.

 

I seldom agree with him, but there's no need for that.

 

This thread is really interesting, for example.

 

I agree to some degree. But that just shows how great a fighter he was. Foreman also coped very well with his much more depleted physical assets, in his comeback. I was always very impressed by how he pulled that off.

 

I'll address this properly tomorrow but surely the pre exile Ali got hit FAR less than the latter Ali. You talk about him defending himself better but pre exile Ali, against better oppostion (the more dangerous the better he defended or would defend if need be) just did not cop anywere near as much leather and would not have vs post exile opponents either IMO. Against a big banger like Liston he was a will o' the wisp, because he had to be. He was more prone to defensive lapses vs seemingly lesser dangers, and i believe Holmes is very similar.

 

Well, I hope Senya meant that it helped him defend himself better given his diminished speed and stamina. Anyone who thinks that Ali was easier to hit pre-exile than post-exile should really stay clear of all threads that discusses Ali in any way.

 

pretty much what most people with knowledge on the sport should think

:good

 

Do anyone think Jones was on steroids? He was after all very muscular built and EXTREMELY explosive in an era where many top athletes used steroids.

 

Nothing really to add, other than I'm with those claiming Ali was the better P4P fighter. Far more durable with a better resume, and engaged in more 'legacy' fights.

 

If Ali had avoided the best boxers of his era nobody would be having this discussion. So why is this discussion taking place at all?