Pablo Cesar Cano vs. Fernando Angulo, missed by most on 03/01/14

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Mar 3, 2014.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    It was quite a weekend for the ruination of grand (and rather arrogantly made) plans.

    First you had Badou Jack eliminated from his planned eliminator with James DeGale (for the right to face WBC titlist Sakio Bika) when Derek Edwards knocked him out on ShoBox last Friday night. DeGale held up his end of the bargain in beating Gevorg Khatchikian the next day, but is left without a dance partner to earn his crack at Bika. Jack was a, rather shockingly in hindsight, 1/18 favorite over the completely overlooked Edwards.

    Then you had Orlando Salido putting on a brutally efficient display of borderline illegal veteran tactics and squashing the history-making dreams of Vasyl Lomachenko on HBO. Lomachenko was already being handed the keys to a unified featherweight kingdom by some gun-jumpers, despite only having 11:59 on the clock. He was also favored at 2/9; the four-time world champion Salido being all but completely overlooked.

    Lastly came the derailment of a rumored Lucas Martin Matthysse vs. Pablo Cesar Cano showdown in May, when grizzled salt-o-the-earth Fernando Angulo stopped him on cuts in the penultimate round of a Fox Deportes main event late Saturday night. There were no published odds, but you can bet Cano would've been a heavy favorite as most viewed this as just a tune-up for his match with Matthysse...Angulo being completely overlooked.


    This was no flukey stoppage where Cano was caught in a bad place by a stray punch. Angulo put in hard work all night and reaped his just reward in the end. "El Demoledor" certainly looked the physically stronger man early on, as expected, and got out to a clear lead on points by the halfway point of the scheduled distance. The unofficial Fox Deportes commentators' scorecard had Cano up 49-46 through five, and surely the official judges had something in that same vicinity with Cano landing most of the more eye-catching and telling blows...although "El Fiera" did well to avoid getting hit with too many at once, proving slippery and difficult to pin down, and working in sneaky body shots and overhand right counters on the left eye socket of Cano from very early on, getting solid foundational work done even in the rounds he was clearly losing. By the 6th, both the body punching and the clubbing facial blows of Angulo had taken a toll with Cano's pace slowing considerably and his face breaking out in multiple lacerations from each causal factor respectively. The commentator - Mexican, and doubtless rooting for longtime Fox Deportes fixture Cano, mind you - had Angulo sweeping the next few rounds, tightening up the score to 67-66 entering the eighth and even into the ninth.

    Angulo was dominating the early action of the ninth before the stoppage, still intelligently targeting and busting up the now torn-asunder eyes and lips of Cano and making him resemble Christopher Nolan's interpretation of The Joker, while still plugging hard diving straight right body shots to discourage Cano from rallying to mount an energy-costly offense. Angulo had all the momentum and Cano was looking rough. So even had the doctor not cautioned that Cano should be spared, Angulo should have been on his way to a fair decision over Cano.
     
  2. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    So does the victor in this case get the spoils? :think

    Matthysse probably would be abused for taking on Fernando Angulo, by some of the same people who might've thought Cano was a decent test for him.

    Angulo is better than his record and game every night out - but he would be in a mismatch with Matthysse and wouldn't have the same obvious weaknesses to exploit that Cano does for a savvy game-planner who'd done their homework on him. (paper skin and stamina issues, and openness to body punches)

    OTOH, Angulo beat Cano fair & square and you might argue has earned a payday - if not on Saturday night then with years of paying his dues, taking assignments on short notice, giving a good account of himself even in losses and springing occasional upsets.

    Plus, nobody has stopped him in twelve years so there would be a chance for Matthysse to make a statement in that regard.
     
  3. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

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    I think it'd be different if Matthysse wasn't so highly respected and well thought of...

    He really should fight someone better than Angulo, regardless of "earning" it in a defacto eliminator. I don't think it's a crime to say had Cano won he would have been a much better opponent than Angulo is now that he won.

    If Cano/Angulo entered their fight on even-ish standing in their careers, and it was billed as a defacto eliminator, and Matthysse wasn't seen as miles ahead of both, than sure. But when a mismatch happens and the underdog wins it doesn't automatically elevate the underdog's stock above where the favored fighters' was going into their fight.

    If you take the stance that Angulo deserves Matthysse, than you also feel that Saul Alvarez did the right thing in fighting Josesito Lopez despite the skill and accomplishment difference (after he beat Victor Ortiz in his "tune up" for Alvarez). I didn't feel that way then, I don't now, and I feel it is a fair comparison for this threads' topic. You're a bit of a hypocrite if you don't stay consistent on these two comparables (yes, they are not perfect examples for debate, but they also aren't all that bad to compare the situations).
     
  4. jas

    jas ★ Legends: B-HOP ; PAC ★ Full Member

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    broner vs fernando angulo next.
     
  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    All true enough but I think what I'm questioning here is whether Cano vs. Angulo ever was even a mismatch to begin with. In the perception of most, it was - and while there was no betting line to support that you can hazard an educated guess that Cano would've been a prohibitive favorite with the bookies...and yet...

    Not meaning to brag about it, and obviously I never said outright that Angulo would beat him or anything...but to me (having a bit more intimate knowledge of Angulo than most of those probably just glancing at his Boxrec page and noting all the losses) Cano vs. Angulo felt like as close to an even matchup as Matthysse vs. Cano would've been, almost...with Angulo really no more an underdog in my view than Cano would be going up against Matthysse.

    Again, this was no fluke, no lucky punch in the right place depriving Cano of victory on a technicality. Angulo had actively worked toward inflicting that cuts damage and was nosing out in front of Cano on points (on the pro Cano television commentators' scorecard) with all the momentum swung his way. If they fought another four times, I'm not sure Angulo wouldn't split them and best Cano in a three-of-five series.

    You say Cano would have been a superior opponent for Matthysse than Angulo is now - but if we accept that Cano as shown h2h the other night really isn't on a different level than Angulo, further examining that many people were suggesting Cano might be very competitive and in with a chance against Matthysse - then would it not be hypocrisy to now claim Angulo has no business in the ring with Matthysse? I will allow that styles make fights and some guys are poison for others and have their number even while generally operating below their level - but I dont think such is the case here. Cano has the more well-known name and reputation (competitive with Mosley and Morales, considered robbed against Malignaggi...plus a handful of solid actual W's) as well as the promotional backing and the prettier record on paper...but I think Angulo is an underrated and under-the-radar guy who is honestly operating on the same exact fringe contender level as Cano.

    What I'm saying is everybody was just flat out wrong to look at Cano vs. Angulo like it was in the bag for Cano - not just because this is boxing where anything can happen, but because Angulo if you really know him is actually pretty good...while Cano, much as I like him, is a very flawed fighter.
     
  6. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

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    Good read IB...
     
  7. elchivito

    elchivito master betty Full Member

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    Cano is young and very game, but huge mismatch against Lucas IMO. But then again this would be Lucas' first venture into 147, wouldn't it, IB? At 5'6" it seems this era of welters seem to be shrinking!
     
  8. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Have you even read any of the posts before yours? :lol:

    Cano lost his supposed "tuneup". Matthysse vs. Cano is out, no longer subject to consideration. Angulo busted those plans up, along with Cano's entire mug.

    For it to be made now - with Cano directly off a loss and 1-3 in his last four - would IMO bea lot more ridiculous than Matthysse vs. Angulo would be.
     
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    People must have forgotten - or weren't around for it - but long before Miguel Vázquez officially took his zero, Leonardo Zappavigna had been escorted to school by Angulo.

    I, and most observers, saw Angulo beating Zappavigna comfortably.

    http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=209686

    That was a pretty bad robbery, among the worst of 2010.

    This was realistically in the neighborhood of 116-112 for Angulo, so not even the relatively more reasonable 114-113 card of Jonathan Davis (which minus the point deduction on Angulo would read a draw) is supportable. The identical 116-111 cards turned in by Glen Hamada and Jerry Cantu were just fictive. :verysad


    ...and while nobody thought it was a robbery, the scoring in Juan Diaz vs. Fernando Angulo was also ridiculously wide. That was in truth closer to a draw or narrow margin for Diaz. That was a prime Baby Bull and El Fiera pushed him to his limit in a total war.

    Cano is a decent B level fighter, gutsy with heavy hands and a good chin and work ethic - but with his porous defense, ponderously slow hands, and being so prone to cuts there is no way to justify saying he is on some pedestal above the likes of Angulo if you look deeper than Boxrec.
     
  10. jas

    jas ★ Legends: B-HOP ; PAC ★ Full Member

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    cano is signed to GBP
     
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    ...yes?
     
  12. jas

    jas ★ Legends: B-HOP ; PAC ★ Full Member

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    if he won, could have fought broner maybe?
     
  13. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    He still can (get it? "Can man" reference :hey) if he puts together a rebound W or two while Broner is tied up with Khan.

    He just shouldn't be given a payday with Matthysse or anybody coming directly off a TKO loss. He needs to cushion that with a 2 or 3-W streak, or avenge it (which is risky, and could easily then become two consecutive TKO losses to Angulo...)
     
  14. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    ...and for the record, no, I don't think Matthysse vs. Angulo really makes sense for anybody involved (and I also don't think Derek Edwards should get to jump into Badou Jack's eliminator with DeGale for the right to challenge Bika) - Angulo gets smashed, Matthysse gets little credit, and the big wigs don't make any real money off it - but it's just food for thought.

    If you strip away the prettier records, hype, and popularity, you'd find that Cano & Angulo in their match-up and Jack & Edwards in theirs weren't truly on such uneven footing as it seemed to many heading in...
     
  15. jas

    jas ★ Legends: B-HOP ; PAC ★ Full Member

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    mexi-cannnn,

    khan jus flew back to uk, basically 2 fingers up to GBP and floyd