Pac’s Decline-A Total Myth

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by PaoloP4P, May 25, 2008.


  1. PaoloP4P

    PaoloP4P Member Full Member

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    Mar 25, 2008
    Pac’s Decline-A Total Myth

    There’s been a lot of talk here based on Pac’s last 2 fights that we are starting to witness Pac’s decline. Some would even say that it started to show in his 8th round ko of Solis. He looked lethargic against Solis and critics say he took too long to KO Solis. Against MAB even some of the most ardent MAB supporters didn’t believe he would see the 12th round. He did thus the influx of Pac criticism.To many, the close JMM rematch was proof positive that Pac indeed was declining evidenced by JMM’s strong technical performance. In all actuality even if this could be slightly true(that Pac is in decline), what it’s based on is what makes it a total myth. I for one believe that overall he is in the midst of his prime boxing years. Detractors will always find a way to discredit anyone who’s on top.

    Now let me explain….

    Against Solis it is for all intensive purposes a tune-up, a tune-up who happened to be undefeated with over 30 fights under his belt. Yet somehow an 8th round ko was enough for questions to start materializing. The truth is following Pac’s 3 round blowout of Morales, nothing less than a 1st round ko would’ve been a disappointment to most. Also it’s worth mentioning that Pac was in the midst of a Senate race and that MAYBE just MAYBE he was already looking past Solis. Despite that he did knock him out.

    Now against MAB. This one’s quite simple. No one gave MAB a chance. In fact everyone expected Pac to KO MAB. This was just a case of everyone’s expectations being raised too high. MAB is a future HOF’er. I’ve always thought that all this talk about him getting KO’ed is ridiculous based on the fact that they already had fought before and based on how MAB did in prior rematches with Junior Jones and EM. MAB made adjustments and fought not to get knocked out. If you know anything about Pac, all his ko’s comes when it’s a toe-to-toe battle. He didn’t get it. Despite all that, he still won a whitewash in the scorecards. Yet somehow people still question that win and even more questions about Pac declining.

    Now JMM, some would say that Pac should’ve lost. It was that close a fight with neither fighter dominating each other. With that said the reason why a Pac-JMM fight will always be close no matter how many times they fight is that Pac will always be in a stylistic disadvantage. This term gets thrown out a lot but let me explain why with a hypothetical situation. If JMM was fighting a version of himself, where both fighters was just waiting on each other to make a move, then neither of them would look good. A defensive counterpuncher needs a foil and what’s a better foil than someone like Pac who comes in with relentless pressure and throws punches in bunches. This is JMM’s advantage; what he does best is amplified when he fights Pac. JMM looked at his counterpunching best when he fought Pac. However, that counterpunching should’ve systematically broken down Pac and broken down his will. It did not. In fact Pac kept on pressuring and also looked good himself doing it. Despite this stylistic disadvantage Pac still fought the same way he always fought---coming forward….and oh yeh, did I mention that JMM was a top5 p4per??

    So no I don’t think Pac is in decline. I think most have this images of Pac when he was just overwhelming opponents who stood up to him. Well the secret is out and no one in their right mind will stand toe-to-toe with Pac (except Morales coz he has balls of steel). It’s only in those kinds of fights that Pac looks his unbeatable best(ie stylistic advantage). Pac is a fighter and he looks his best when he fights other "fighters". But alas, what we’ve seen in the last 2 Pac fights is MAB and JMM. So how anyone expected Pac to blow these guys out is beyond me. If you want to see Pac at his best, let him fight Valero, let him fight Juan Diaz...andyes let him fight Hatton, guys who don't back down. Then that's when the extremist Pac fans will say, "wow Pac can fight middleweight if he wants to."


    I have a feeling though against David Diaz, we’re gonna get another glimpse to what Larry Merchant has described as a “typhoon across the Pacific”.
     
  2. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    good post

    I'd like to add that moving up in weight multiple times may have taken away some of Pac's physical advantages compared to his opponents, but he has much more skills than he used to and technically he is better than ever.
     
  3. Sandmanl337

    Sandmanl337 Pactard Full Member

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    Damn good post.. Pac is in no way declining in any way.. As Pharoah mentioned, while he may lose some physical advantages, he his still fast as ever, still packs a powerful punch, and he is technically better.. JMM was Pac's toughest challenge to date.. Of course he went through hell, but JMM did too.. Pac is in his prime and he'll continue to fight as one of the best P4P fighters for some time..
     
  4. rreed23

    rreed23 aka Gordon Gekko Full Member

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    Most boxing writers make me sick with their decline bull****, sad little people that never did anything themselves.
     
  5. eliqueiros

    eliqueiros Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pac is the epitome of a fighter in his prime. He struggled against people he was supposed to struggle to. Many thought he would outright loose to Marquez not because Pac was declining but because Marquez was the superior talent. That he won goes to show there is no way he is in decline.
     
  6. PaoloP4P

    PaoloP4P Member Full Member

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    Thanks Im new here and i want a good read on who's the Pac supporters around here (objective ones) coz it seems to me there's too many here diminishing Pac's accomplishments and ability and not enough givin him his due. It seems that way at least.
     
  7. PaoloP4P

    PaoloP4P Member Full Member

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    It was a 50-50 fight for me but I was not one of those who thought Marquez was a superior talent. I thought he was the superior boxer and had the perfect style to beat Pac. In fact I would have to say Pac would be the superior talent, at least in the physical department. Whereas JMM being by far the more polished fighter (not to take anything away from Pac's technical skills). I just think JMM is pure textbook and because of that had a legitimate chance to win and has every cause to demand a 3rd fight. And hopefully, it will happen within the next year or so.
     
  8. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Wow, I agree word for word except for the part about Hatton. I dont think Hatton is a stylistic advantage for Pac, and if it was you could say the same for Hatton. Pac needs space to launch his shots, like Kostya Tsyzu. Hatton's will smother him and stop him from doing that, using his size advantage to wear him out and his rough tactics will confuse pac. Only advantage Pac has is the fact that Hatton isnt too hard to hit and his punch resistance right now isnt too great.

    I always said though that he would destroy Juan Diaz. And I agree with David Diaz making pac look great.
     
  9. Toopretty

    Toopretty Custom made Full Member

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    Pac fans are loons. But Pac is better then ever. The next dude he fights that is not JMM he is going to beat the fur off of them. I see no decline, he is strong, he is more skilled, less reckless. Has his same punch and speed.
     
  10. eliqueiros

    eliqueiros Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yeah, I completely agree. By superior talent I meant superior skill set. Marquez was the last line of defence for all those who thought Pac would be exposed. As far as raw talent Pac is very gifted. I'd like to see a rematch too but think Pac has earned himself some time off from the Morales, Barrera, Marquez sagas.
     
  11. PaoloP4P

    PaoloP4P Member Full Member

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    Mar 25, 2008
    I think against Hatton both of them could look good. Depends on who imposes their offense. Hatton's natural size could be the key and he may be able to withstand Pac's punches enough to inflict his own pain on Pac. If Hatton can tire and fluster Pac with his size and roughhouse style, and withstand enough of Pac's own firepower then I definitely favor him with Pac having his moments. However I think Pac's in and out style and quick feet lends itself to faring better against Hatton's style then other fighters. This is an interesting matchup. After a JMM rematch, this is one I'd luv to see....maybe even travel to Manchester or Manila for it.
     
  12. Scar

    Scar VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm pretty sure it started after the Solis fight where he looked a bit too wild, the same happened after the Velazquez fight and I fell for it too. It's normal for him to take a fight lightly and not look as special as he does for elite fighters, going through extremely tough training camps for every single fight will take a lot of him so not looking extremely awesome for tune-up type of fights is pretty normal. He's not declining, not even close and he might look a bit bad for his next fight but it'll be normal because let's be honest, David Diaz is nothing but a tune-up for someone like Pacquiao. Pacman is only 29 years old and has A LOT more to give so I'm not really worried there. His speed is still there and power as it was seen in the extremely tough Marquez fight.
     
  13. Undisputed P4P

    Undisputed P4P esb FBL & FIFA 12 champ Full Member

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    it's funny this, before i wasn't a fan of pac but now i'm becoming one not fully there yet, i think he is a top fighter but i just want to see him getting KO'd from a mexican.
     
  14. Morrissey

    Morrissey Underrated Full Member

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    As much I believe he is indeed on a decline, the text was argued well and the points well placed.

    However, I have a doubt that he will KO the naturally bigger Diaz. If he can't, and the fight went like the Larios fight, would you say he is still in his prime?
     
  15. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

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    If you just beat MAB and JMM I really wouldn't be talking about decline.