Pac and Henry Armstrong comparison.

I agree that defense made in the past as undisputed champ counts more than holding a single title currently. It is harder to distinguish the ranking of fighters present day, but one can only make their best judgement by following the resume of top fighters and their performance.

Fighters from different era goes by the regulations of their time exactly the same as their opponents. Fighters today who weights 160 and fighting at 147 would be facing opponents who are likely to do the same. I would like to explain my previous point further but a bit tired to elaborate it well enough to have it understood.

True enough, just obtaining a random single title wouldn't mean that someone is the best or even the forth. It might have been a crap title that has recieved any real challenge while other top fighters was battling it out for one of the more recognizeable belt or champion. It would depend on who you fight when earning that belt and if they are undisputed champ or if there are several controversial champions which must be all beaten to be declared the best of that weight class.

Defenses are only great when having worthy contenders, so not all defenses should be counted equally. Hagler is an ATG, no argument there and I know how stack it was at his time which makes him that much more impressive.

What happened in the past have also occurred in recent time. Judah losing to Baldomir, Forrest losing to Mayorga, and many other events. Fast hands, good footwork, outboxing are major set of skills that can make a great boxer but they aren't the only factors when distinguishing the outcome of a fight. Heart, chin, strong body, determination, ring smarts, patience, adaptability, style, condition, mental stability, mental interference, and who knows how many other things be coming into play in a fight. But skills does matter, it just isn't everything.

You have been a boxing fan quite a time longer than I and a more avid one as well, no contest there. I am more than willing to admit you are by far more knowledgeable than me as a boxing historian, actually I never considered myself one.

Sometimes it is being a history buff that is a person's biggest fault. They simply refuse to acknowledge anything other than the past that they hold so dear to them because of all the years of admiration/worship. If someone disagree with every single point that another person makes regardless if it is sensible or not, then that person is just being completely bias.

 

Have you even read my post signatures yet?

"Manny Armstrong = Henry Pacquiao"

IMO that is high praise for the Pacman. He is not at that level yet, but he is maybe only three wins (Mosley, Cotto, Mayweather) away from it.

My all-time greats per division
HW - Muhammad Ali
LHW - Michael Spinks
MW - Carlos Monzon
WW - Ray Robinson
LW - Henry Armstrong
FW - Willie Pep
BW - Eder Jofre
Fly - Jimmy Wilde

I don't think that I am stuck on or in the past. When I see a modern fighter that is an all-time great I acknowledge it. But I think it takes time (at least five years minimum) to put a fighter's career into its proper historical perspective. And I reserve judgement so as not to go overboard before someone's heart and chin are fully tested (such as Hamed, Mayweather).

 

Fair enough bud, it is just that reading from your arguments it seemed like you tend to downplay today's fighters when comparing with the oldies. I don't even have a ATG list because I will be the first to admit that I lack the knowledge of knowing the details of all the great fighters of the past other than scraps from here and there. I will definitely check out some of them greats and their top opponents to find out more what they are about though. Thanks for the discussions!

 

I don't think I was downplaying anything. I was calling it as I see it. I praise fighters who deserve praise.

Recent all-time greats (in my top ten all-time per their weight classes)

Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis
Roy Jones
Bernard Hopkins
Pernell Whitaker
Kaosai Galaxy
Jung-Koo Chang
Ricardo Lopez