Pac vs. Duran at Welterweight.

Mag ALWAYS does that:take Duran's excuses and introduce those in his threads while making excuses for Leonard's loss to Duran,That's ALWAYS been his MO.

 

Pac made DeLaHoya look inept?Of course he did.Oscar was SHOT when they fought.Or are you going to deny that?

 

The difference between Leonard and Duran is wins at the highest level. Duran had a very good lightweight career. Marcel Buchanan,Dejesus. Viruet etc. But not elite fighters of who he fought later. Regardless he never knocked out an ATG. Not one. Ray beat Duran in the rematch and rubber match. He beat Hearns -Duran did not. He beat Hagler. Duran did not. He beat Benitez-Duran did not. I do not think they are at the same level, and Ray has proven more against other greats that he was the variable at the top level and not Duran.

 

He was a tired fighter but still Pacman beat him easily and beat other ATG fighters like Barrera and Morales etc. Duran regardless of anything else did not fight the Barrera and Morales level at lightweight. Now are you going to deny that? And he did not beat the Barrera and Morales level ever. He fought them and in my mind fought better ATG guys than Barrera and Morales, but he didn't beat them. He beat Ray when Ray was not in my mind great yet. How is a guy great in his second defense of his first title. My point is Duran was great. Charisma,Machismo, skills, instincts everything. But still that does not get him wins over the best fighters he fight, and a ferocious lightweight reign without those elites is why I think he gets considerations he should not. I have said this over and over for years now.. His record does not have anything to prove he would beat Pacman. Had he beaten Ray in the rematch or knocked out Arguello in a fight which obviously never happened,or beaten Hearns or Benitez. I would have said well maybe..

 

DeJesus and Buchanan were great lightweights.Maybe not ATGs,but close to it and their resumes speak for themselves.Having written that,you still didn't address the fact that you take Duran to task for his many excuses but ALWAYS make the same excuse for Leonard's losing to Duran.Plus,you are in total denial that Duran was naturally smaller than the welter and superwelter welter elites that he lost to and was past his prime when he hit his 30s.And btw,only you would try to make this a Duran-Leonard thread even though the discussion was who would come out on top between Duran and Pac,especially using the Duran Leonard rematch as why Duran would have lost to Pac even though Pac(a great fighter that I've a ton of respect for) not only does not possess the movement needed to beat Duran,but is not on the same level as Leonard at 147.Just which great lightweight and/or welter has Pac beaten,lol?

 

DeLaHoya was shot,Just look at how shitty he looked.And don't say just because of Pac.He looked like ****.Yes,Pac beat Erik and MAB,and they were terrific as I'm a fan.But he beat them both at 126 after both of them had been badly beaten.DeJesus and Buchanan were both close to those 2 on quality level.****,Kenny beat a still formidable Ismael Laguna twice,including once in Puerto Rico.Plus It's beyond me how you can mention those two as how Pac may have beaten Duran.It just doesn't make sense.

 

Denial about Duran being smaller? When he beat Moore and Barkley no one mentions anything except that he is so great to beat those guys. Guys other guys beat much better. And how small was Duran really. He got up in weight between fights much much higher than Hearns,Hagler Benitez or Leonard, and he fought at 154 before Hearns/Benitez/or Leonard ever did, and that is the weight Hearns and Benitez beat him easily

And Ray's excuse was legit because Ray fought differently. It is clear from the 1st round in June 1980 to Nov. 1980.. Duran just has the excuse he was out of shape.. for Ray 2, Hearns 1, Benitez 1. All coincidentally he lost easily. And yet he didn't train for those ATG fighters, but he trained for Moore and Barkley. I think the denial is Duran fans. The excuses for him went beyond logic. If he can get credit for winning titles at certain weights, he should be held accountable for losing at those weights. How is irrational?
Yeah like you said I make the same excuse Ray, not excuses, and my excuse for Ray was proven when Ray fought his fight in the rematch. And the third fight is significant since even an older Ray still could fight his fight and win every round against Duran.

 

to say it was not somewhat because of Pac that Oscar lost would not be fair to Pacman. I don't think Dejesus and Buchanan were close to Barrera and Morales. no

 

a prime Pac Man lost to erik morales at `30...cant see him beating Duran of 1980 who had every advange...is stronger, a better bxer, better chin, more power....Manny is fast but he isnt elusive and doesnt fight well on the inside or the outside...Duran would hit him with alot of flush right hands at mid range slipping and rolling with shots...Manny will get flustered abd Duran was a helluva body puncher....Duran wins by clear points or late stoppage in a barn burner

 

There is simply no evidence that a prime Duran would not cut off the ring and/or counter the **** out of Manny, no matter what haters say.

 

3 pages? Really?

Duran TKO 12 Pacquaio.

Body punch.

 

I don't believe they were as good as Barrera and Morales either,but I DO believe they were close.You still didn't address how Pac's beating of those 2 would have anything to do with a Duran fight.

 

You STILL make that excuse.Anything Duran did after his lightweight and welter career is just gravy because he already established himself at those 2 weights with well over 70 fights and only 2 losses.Duran OBVIOUSLY DID NOT HAVE a HOF career when he got into his 30s.He was past prime when he got into his 30s.Anyone can see that with 2 eyes.Quick question:do you believe the Duran from the Leonard 1 fight loses to Kirkland Laing? Once again,so what he got up in weight?That just means he was getting fat between fights.Also,do you believe Duran was the same in the 2nd Leonard fight as he was in the 1st?When Duran took his robe off,Carlos Palomino said that the fight was over.Most importantly,what does any of this have to do with a proposed ESB matchup of Pac and Duran when Pac's ONLY advantage is handspeed?

 

They were as good, you're overrating Morales/MAB and underrating DeJesus/Buchannon. Do you think Raheem beats Duran too because he won every round against Morales before Pacman beat him. What about Junior Jones he beat a better Barrera easier than Pacquaio managed, can he beat Duran?

Your basis for picking Pacquaio is he beat past it versions of Morales and Delahoya. How about him being completely outboxed by Marquez? Guess what all these fighters are easier fights than the bigger and better Leonard, Hearns and Benitez.