Packey McFarland - The Most Underrated Lightweight of All Time

It was a no decision bout. The newspaper decision split is in my post you quoted, though I agree with Klompton that from the surving footage Gibbons appears to edge it.

 

ya well .. the poster you came to his defense bukakee described him only as a grabber and then.you jumped my **** for it ,, so him and I have a little beef over the years and you jump in? as I do not think I am jamming you up in anyway

 

I described who as a grabber? And we're supposed to have a running feud here?... I'm very confused!

 

I'm not sure what relevance it has to the Gibbons vs McFarland fight and i have no interest in your history with other posters, but I called you out for responding to a non-abusive post made by another member of this forum, with a post containing personal abuse. I'd have done the same had you been the recipient of unnecessary personal abuse.

I've no problem with your posts in this thread and suggest it would be pointless to continue this discussion.

 

Thank you. I only know a bit about him so I am going to check out your posts.

 

The fight was contracted for 147 pounds ringside. It not true that it was 154.

Because it was a huge fight and in order to get him to agree McFarland made him make weight for it.

McFarland was one pound higher than he weighed when he retired. Is it really impressive that he ran and held and covered up all day against a guy who rarely went for the KO and was weight drained?

Ill take JJ's word over anyone on this forum. He was a huge McFarland fan, researched him, lived in Chicago, and when he died he had forgotten more about boxing and McFarland than most everyone on this forum.

A guy who lives in Russia, admits his resources are limited to what he can find on the internet, and is blindly biased in favor of McFarland. No thanks.

 

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Every source and all of the prefight material show the fight was contracted for 147. The weights announced ringside were nothing but unofficial weights given to the announcer by the fighters handlers. We use official weights, not unofficial weights. Otherwise, why not change every single fight that took place on HBO in 2000s to the unofficial HBO ringside weight instead of the contracted weight? This is absolutely no different.

 

This is a great thread.
Congrat's for all the great content, gent's.
Top!

 

McFarland received $17,500, and after much haggling Gibbons accepted $15,000, the highest purse that he ever received for a fight. It was a huge set of guarantees at the time. The kicker was that Mike had to make 147. Mike describes the ordeal of making the weight and his weakness in the ring in Chapter 18 of the autobiographical series which he wrote for the Boxing Blade in 1924. Chapter 18 appears in the Nov. 1 issue. Packey demanded that Mike make 147 or there would be no fight. Mike weighed in at 147 for the formal weigh-in on the day of the fight.

He didn't specify the exact time of day for the weigh-in, but he writes, "The hour for the weighing-in arrived and I tipped the beam at 147. I dashed out for dinner--it was my first real meal in two days. As I sat down I spied a glass of of ice water. Although I knew that it would damage me physically to drink, I grabbed the glass. 'I must make this last the entire meal,' said I to myself. I raised it to my lips. How cool it was, how refreshing. I felt the tingle through my body as my parched lips met the water. I drained the glass despite the previous warning to myself. And moreover, as I ate, I drank several glasses of the iced water. The meal finished, I went out on the board walk. I noticed, however, that things danced in front of my eyes. I felt dizzy and returned to rest."

So, there was a weigh-in prior the the fight, and Mike made the 147-pound weight for which he had contracted. He also had time for a meal and water between the weigh-in and the fight, so he would have weighed more than 147 when he entered the ring.

 

From my scrap-book:

Newspaper decision for Gibbons (10) from Grantland Rice (NY Tribune), Walter St. Denis (NY Globe), Jack Curley (NY American), Robert Edgren (NY Evening World), Brooklyn Eagle, Brooklyn Standard Union, Newark Sunday Call, Buffalo Commercial, Jack Malaney (Boston Journal), Associated Press (7-3 by rounds).

Newspaper decision for McFarland (25) from J.G. Vreeland (NY Morning World), Joe McNeill (NY Morning World), Charley White (NY Morning World/Chicago Herald), NY Herald, Eddy Carter (NY Sun), Joe Vila (NY Evening Sun), Mal Doyle (NY Press), Damon Runyon (NY American), NY Call, Abe Attell (NY Evening Telegram), Brooklyn Citizen, Ring W. Lardner (Chicago Tribune), Bill Foreman (Chicago Herald), Jack Lait (Chicago Herald/Minneapolis Tribune), Nate Lewis (Chicago Examiner), Ed W. Smith (Chicago American), Chicago Daily News, William H. Rocap (Philadelphia Public Ledger/Chicago Tribune), Philadelphia Inquirer, George R. Holmes (United Press; 4-1-5 by rounds), Joe O’Neil (Los Angeles Times), Jimmy De Forest (Asbury Park Evening Press), Morning Oregonian (Portland), Allentown Democrat, United Press (another round-by-round report).

A draw (8) from P.T. Knox (NY Evening Telegram), Bat Masterson (NY Morning Telegraph), R.L. Goldberg (NY Evening Mail), NY Times, Jack Skelly (Yonkers Herald), J.H. Ritchie (Minneapolis Journal), Tom Andrews (Milwaukee Leader), International News Service.

Billy Joh, the referee expressed his private opinion that it should have been a draw.
Matt Hinkel, Cleveland referee, also thought it was a draw.


Still need to see actual reports from: Walter St. Denis (NY Globe), J.G. Vreeland (NY Morning World), Charley White (NY World/Chicago Herald), Bill Foreman (Chicago Herald), Bat Masterson (NY Telegraph), Tom Andrews (Milwaukee Leader), but their decisions were listed in other newspapers as stated above.


Hell, yeah, 33 journalists + 2 referees all had a grudge against Gibbons.

 

1915-08-03 Chicago Examiner (Chicago, IL) (page 12)
BY SAM P. HALL.
...
After a long dispute the boxers agreed on 147 pounds at 3 o'clock as the weight for the big quarrel. Packey wanted 145 at that hour and Mike desired 150. Somebody finally suggested 147 and they consented.
...
The weight, 147 at 3, means 152 ringside or thereabouts, which is about halfway between the welterweight and middleweight limits.
...


1915-09-04 The Auburn Citizen (Auburn, NY) (page 3)
Judging on his looks Packey today is as good as ever. He has taken off about 10 pounds of weight and has some more to lose. He doesn't look too big, but he is more robust in appearance than he was when seen here last.

1915-09-08 The Brooklyn Daily Eagle (Brooklyn, NY) (page S2)
A close friend of McFarland declared yesterday that Packey weighed 169 pounds stripped, before his lunch on the day the match was made in Chicago. If that is true, no man ever before took off 22 pounds in little more than a month and looked as well as McFarland does right now.
According to Packey's trainer, Ike Bernstein, the Chicago boxer is now within a pound of the required 147 pounds, and after his "stunts" this afternoon, will be within the limit.

1915-09-08 The New York Times (New York, NY) (page 10)
Gibbons now is in the best condition of his career. He has worked himself down to about 148 1/2 pounds, but unlike McFarland he will not rest until the last minute, having booked strenuous preliminary sessions right through to Saturday morning. As evidence of the conscientiousness with which Gibbons has faced the task before him, he skipped the ropes yesterday 1,200 times, and when through did not seem the least fatigued.

1915-09-09 The New York Press (New York, NY) (page 4)
Packey McFarland has been training so hard since he came to town that yesterday he got down to the 147-pound notch, at which he must meet Gibbons. It was easy for the Chicagoan to get to weight. He had hoped to linger around the 150-pound mark until to-day and then get to the stipulated place and take it easy, confining his efforts to increasing his speed. Packey will continue to do some road work, but only for the purpose of bettering his wind.
Gibbons is getting down easily, too. He weighed 148½ pounds when he finished his rope-skipping exercise, his bag-punching stunt and his seven rounds of boxing with brother Tom, Allie Nack and Eddie Nugent yesterday afternoon. He was very much pleased with the way he was dropping the flesh and stated that by to-night he would be at the right notch, and from then on would hold the weight and be lighter, if anything, at weigh-in time.

1915-09-10 New-York Tribune (New York, NY) (pages 12, 13)
Packey McFarland and Mike Gibbons, the men who may make pugilistic history when they meet for ten rounds at Brighton Beach to-morrow night wound up their training yesterday afternoon. Packey, smiling and happy, his keen eyes snapping with good nature, tipped the beam at 147 pounds, and appeared to be ready to fight his weight in wildcats. Never before was he in such high spirits on the eve of an important match, his handlers declare, and they accept this as a good omen. Gibbons, surly and sullen, tipped the beam slightly below 147 pounds, and his brother Tom announced that this was a certain indication of perfect condition. The men will weigh in at 147 pounds ringside.

1915-09-10 The Brooklyn Daily Eagle (Brooklyn, NY) (page S2)
To the people who have watched McFarland prepare for the bout, his present condition is a revelation. When he started, Packey weighed just under 170 pounds. Yesterday, after his roadwork, McFarland was a shade under 148 pounds. That means that he is down to weight and will do no more real work for the fight. How he has lost 22 pounds in six weeks is a mystery that only Packey and Ike Bernstein, his trainer, can explain. Certainly Packey has taken off his extra weight without any fuss or feathers. Never since he has been here has McFarland appeared to be working for a hard bout.
...
Mike Gibbons also is down to weight and will do no more hard work until he steps into the ring. He does not look as drawn and as pinched as he did when he first came East.

1915-09-10 The Chicago Daily Tribune (Chicago, IL) (page 9)
Whether on account of the heat or what, Packey McFarland got down to weight. In the presence of ourself and several other goofs, the pride of the stockyards weighed in at the end of his day's work and the scales said he weighed 147 pounds. That's what he's supposed to weigh Saturday, so it is plain to see that he doesn't have to do much work from now on. To use the first personal pronoun, I saw Packey about six months ago and he looked what you might call fat. Today he looked like the Patrick who boxed and invariably won.

1915-09-10 The New York Herald (New York, NY) (page 13)
He is not the "Packey" of old. His face is well rounded, almost full, and not at all like the face of a man hardened and conditioned to the moment. He still carries several excess pounds around his chest. His waist is trim, however, as are his legs. It is said "Packey" weighed 169 pounds when he signed articles for this fight, about six weeks ago, but he seems close enough to 147 pounds now to make that weight a pleasure to reach.
...
The normal fighting weight of the St. Paul boxer is about 153 pounds. At this poundage he retains all of his strength and feels himself. But he must tip the beam six pounds under this, and to do this it is necessary for him to work off every ounce of excess fat, every particle of useless flesh and a lot of energy that would do him benefit.

1915-09-11 Boston Journal (Boston, MA) (page 10)
By Jack Malaney
Gibbons scaled at 148 pounds today, which was near enough, according to his way of thinking. He will have to dry out tomorrow anyway, so he didn't try to get nearer the required 147 pounds. At 3 o'clock tomorrow, when they weigh in, he'll be right on the dot.
McFarland weighed 146½ this noon time. And there was no hard work getting to that poundage. His schedule was nicely arranged to bring him to the required weight at the right time. Getting rid of the extra weight which he has been carrying has practically been a pleasure to the Chicago wonder. The fat which had settled on him was a bit oppressive to a man like Packey, who has always kept in pretty fair shape.
Even though McFarland has shown lots of 'stuff' in his training bouts here the opinion which has prevailed on the outcome of the bout still remains. There are very few of those who are venturing an opinion who think that McFarland will have a chance with the St. Paul Phantom.

1915-09-11 New-York Tribune (New York, NY) (page 12)
An interesting study in temperament might have been made. Packey, who made the weight easily and tipped the scales at 146 1/2 pounds yesterday afternoon, is smiling and happy. He laughed and skitted about his camp, showering facetious remarks upon the spectators. He radiated confidence.
Mike Gibbons, on the other hand, was sullen to the point of being churlish. He made the weight after a struggle, but he is not too fine. He, too, was sure of victory. "I'll knock him out," was all he would say. That was quite enough.

1915-09-11 Springfield Daily News (Springfield, IL) (page 8)
By FRANK G. MENKE. [Sporting Editor of the International News Service.]
Both fighters were up and around early today, each indulging in just enough of a workout to limber up the muscles. It is a certainty that both men will make the required weight of 147 pounds. Gibbons was slightly under the maximum weight early in the day, while McFarland beamed around 146, but expected to pick up the extra weight before ring time.

1915-09-11 The Chicago Daily Tribune (Chicago, IL) (page 9)
The boxers wound up their work today with the lightest kind of gymnasium exercises. Both will make the stipulated weight, 147 pounds, without any trouble. In fact, Packey is already under it and Gibbons today announced that he was down to 147 1/2.

1915-09-11 The Evening World (New York, NY) (pages 1, 6, 7)
By Robert Edgren.
McFarland, five days ago, had five pounds to take off. He did it gradually. Gibbons had trained down a couple of pounds more, but he was lean and sinewy, so he had to work harder than McFarland to get all the way down to 147--the required weight upon which the forfeits hang. Each man has up $2,500 in real money.
Mike Gibbons isn't like some fighters. He has no objection to letting any one see him on the scales. Yesterday afternoon Emil Thiry, McFarland's manager, met Mike at the door of Mike's quarters. Mike was just complaining about some new scales that had been sent down to weigh the men for the fight. He had tried them and found that the beam stuck a little, making the weight variable. Mike kicked the scales in disgust, whereupon the beam eased up and balanced nicely. Thiry came in when Mike was about to weigh himself again. Mike, who looked rather drawn, spit out the end of a toothpick that he had been chewing.
"You're pretty dry, aren't you, Mike?" asked Thiry kiddingly. "A little too dry to spit, eh? That's a bad sign."
Gibbons looked at Thiry and then deliberately expectorated on the floor of the dressing room.
"Oh, not so dry," said Mike, and stepped on the scales. He weighed, without his coat but with all his other clothes, just 153½ pounds. That would make him about 147 stripped.
"How's that, Thiry?" queried Mike. "Light enough to suit you."
"Huh," said Thiry, "I'd like to see you down to 140 pounds." Mike grinned.
There's no sign of worry in either camp. Mike Gibbons's grouch went away when he found the scales working right again.
"I'm not worrying half as much about what Packey can do to me as I am about missing the opening of the duck shooting season back home," he told a spectator. "They've been shooting for two days, and I'm in a terrible hurry to get back to my place. Gee! I can imagine I hear those ducks whirring overhead now!"

 

1915-09-12 Chicago Examiner (Chicago, IL) (pages 21, 22)
BY DAMON RUNYON.
At two minutes after 10 o'clock a roar from the crowd told of the coming of one of the principals. McFarland clambered into the ring as a wave of applause swept down over the throng. Packey was dressed in a pair of blue serge pants as he came in and wore a jersey. His hands were bandaged. When he stripped off his pants a pair of green trunks showed. Packey weighed 152 in full ring costume and Gibbons 153. This was ringside weight.

1915-09-12 New-York Tribune (New York, NY) (pages S1, S2)
The men weighed in at 147 pounds at 3 o'clock, making the weight easily, and entered the ring, McFarland weighing 152 pounds, Mike 153.

1915-09-12 Newark Sunday Call (Newark, NJ) (pages 1, 11)
From a Staff Correspondent.
The weights were announced McFarland 152, Gibbons 153. These were ringside figures in full fighting trim. Both men were under the stipulated weight of 147 at 3 o'clock in the afternoon.

1915-09-12 Salt Lake Telegram (Salt Lake City, UT) (pages S1, S8)
(By GEORGE R. HOLMES.)
(By United Press.)
McFarland was first to enter the ring. He made his way through the crowd with difficulty, climbing through the rope at 10:03. Ringside weights were announced as follows: MacFarland, 152; Gibbons, 153.
Both men had weighed in late this afternoon at 147 pounds.

1915-09-12 The Brooklyn Daily Eagle (Brooklyn, NY) (pages 1, S1)
To tell the truth, both boys have done better work in their recent training here. McFarland looked as fat as he was during his training and it was hard to believe that he had actually made 147 pounds at any time yesterday.
Gibbons appeared to be a little bit overtrained, and was decidedly more tired at the end of the contest than the man from Chicago.

BY A STAFF CORRESPONDENT.
At 10:03 the full electric lights in the ring were turned on and Packey McFarland appeared in the ring. He was led by Ike Bernstein, and his trainer and was followed by Tom Burke, Emil Thiery and one or two others from his camp. It was stated that McFarland weighed 152 in full ring costume at 10 p.m. He had made the required 147 at 3 o'clock in the afternoon.
Gibbons followed McFarland into the ring at 10:05 p.m. He was accompanied by Tom Gibbons, his brother; Billy Moore of New York and one or two others. His ringside weight was 153 pounds. He also made 147 pounds at 3 p.m.

1915-09-12 The Chicago Sunday Tribune (Chicago, IL) (page III1)
BY WILLIAM H. ROCAP. [Sporting Editor Public Ledger.]
McFarland was first to enter the ring. He made his way through the crowd with difficulty, clambering through the ropes at 10:03.
McFarland stripped, revealing a pair of bright green trunks. Gibbons was donned simply in a pair of white track pants.
Two shots from Announcer Joe Humphrey's gun brought an almost deathlike silence as the ringside weights were announced as follows:
McFarland, 152.
Gibbons, 153.
Gibbons followed McFarland into the ring three minutes later, at 10:06.

and so on.

 

And, FYI, I haven't been boxrec editor since July 2012, when I asked John to have it removed from my account, due to disagreement about boxrec's policy regarding certain UK bouts. So they had plenty of time to have it changed if they thought it was incorrect.

 

No matter how hard you try you will not change the fact that this bout was contracted at an official weight of 147 and that the announced weights were unofficial and not tied to any weigh in. Your own articles continually say " it was said that McFarland weighed 153..." Yes, "IT WAS SAID" by his handlers. Not officially. You are so McFarland biased its ridiculous. You literally do not want to admit that Gibbons struggled to make weight" When despite the handful of articles you post which pretended McFarland had to come down from 170 in reality its well documented that McFarland wanted the low weight. Period. It was a weight he had basically fought his last few fights at. He knew he could make it. Gibbons hadnt made such a low weight in two years. And, despite those articles acting like McFarland had to come so far down in weight it was Gibbons, not McFarland, who as expected was said to have struggled and look weak, drawn, and nervous at the weigh in. You dont want to admit that it was to McFarland's advantage to fight at this low weight (why he argued so much for it in negotiations) and Gibbons was weakened by the process because you think this will take away from McFarlands credit when in reality what takes away from McFarlands credit is the actual film of the fight. I never said the press had a grudge against Gibbons. I said that I couldnt for the life of me understand how so many in the press had McFarland winning because when you watch the film, which you have said youve only seen ten minutes of, McFarland is on the defensive the entire time, is outpunched, outlanded, and is getting hit with the harder blows from Gibbons who is making the fight and coming forward as well. I would love to know exactly what criteria any judge worth a **** would use to give McFarland that newspaper decision. Its the most puzzling ND from that era Ive ever seen. And yes, I postulated that maybe because Gibbons didnt blow McFarland, a smaller fighter coming out of retirement, away that this was held against him. Not only do I think thats possible but its the only reason I can see for scoring him loser in that fight. You cry all you want about the actual official contracted weights and about the stories of Gibbons being weakened by making that weight but the fact is that it was well covered at the time. You just choose to pick and choose the parts of the story that fit the narrative you want to push. Did I ever deny that so many papers had McFarland the winner? No. I just cant understand it having seen the fight. Did I ever deny that higher weights were announced at ringside? No. But I also make the caveat that those were unofficial weights told to the announcer by the managers and that the actual contracted weights were done at the official weigh in that afternoon, so again, those announced weights are unofficial and no different than the unofficial HBO weigh ins done in the 2000s THAT YOU WONT SEE IN THEIR BOXREC RECORD AS OFFICIAL. Furthermore, you trying say "Well, since they weighed in that afternoon they would have likely entered the ring 152 during the fight." SO WHAT!? From that era until literally the 1980s EVERY weigh in was done on the day of the fight, usually in the afternoon, and saw the fighters go back to their hotel rooms for a meal and to rehydrate. Do you want to go back and change EVERY official weight to what you speculate they weighed when they stepped into the ring as a means of erasing the fact that they actually had to make weight? Because thats exactly what your agenda here is. And yes, you did enter those weights in Boxrec because back when Boxrec showed the history of edits your name was tied to these unofficial weights being entered.

 

Feb 23, 1914 Mike Gibbons W-NWS10 Al McCoy
1914-02-24 The New York Times (New York, NY) (page 9)
The ringside weight was the same for each, 153 pounds.


Mar 24, 1914 Mike Gibbons W-NWS10 Gus Christie
1914-03-25 The Eau Claire Leader (Eau Claire, WI) (page 3)
By Staff Correspondent.
they weighed in with Gibbons at 151 and Christie at 158.


May 5, 1914 Mike Gibbons W-NWS10 Johnny Howards
1914-05-06 The Brooklyn Citizen (Brooklyn, NY) (page 4)
The weights, as announced, were: Gibbons, 152, Howard, 160 1/2.


May 26, 1914 Mike Gibbons W-NWS10 Johnny Kid Alberts
1914-05-27 The Syracuse Herald (Syracuse, NY) (page 16)
According to the announcer Gibbons weighed 147 pounds and Alberts 145


Oct 27, 1914 Mike Gibbons W-NWS10 Billy Maxwell
1914-10-28 The Brooklyn Daily Times (Brooklyn, NY) (page 12)
The weights were: Gibbons, 154 3-4 pounds; Maxwell, 156 3-4, both in ring costume.


Dec 14, 1914 Mike Gibbons W-NWS10 Willie Brennan
1914-12-15 Buffalo Morning Express (Buffalo, NY) (page 12)
From the minute the men put up their hands, after the announcement that Brennan weighed 158 pounds and Mike 154 at ringside, the visitor was thorough master of the situation.


Jan 21, 1915 Mike Gibbons W-NWS10 Jimmy Clabby
1915-01-22 The Chicago Daily Tribune (Chicago, IL) (page 14)
The rivals weighed in at 3 o'clock at Morgenroth's gymnasium, where a flock of eager fans watched the proceeding. Clabby, first to step on the scales, rocked the beam at 153 1/2 pounds with his socks on, which notch was nearly five pounds less than that agreed upon when the match was made. Gibbons weighed 153 pounds.

Mar 2, 1915 Mike Gibbons W-NWS10 Eddie McGoorty
1915-03-03 The Chicago Daily Tribune (Chicago, IL) (page 10)
BY RAY C. PEARSON.
They both found 158 pounds at 3:15 o'clock an easy matter. The "Phantom" was away under the notch, weighing only 151 1/2 pounds. McGoorty scaled at 156 1/2.
1915-03-03 The Denver Post (Denver, CO) (page 11)
BY TOM ANDREWS.
It is a peculiar incident that McGoorty should weigh in at exactly the same poundage that he did for Gibbons in New York, Dec. 4, 1912--155 1/4 pounds. That was what Eddie scaled yesterday at 3:15 o'clock. Gibbons tipped the beam at 151 1/2. In New York Mike scaled 148.
At ringside last night Eddie scaled 157, while Gibbons was around 153 pounds.


May 26, 1915 Mike Gibbons W-NWS10 Leo Houck
1915-05-27 New York Tribune (New York, NY) (page 15)
Houck had the better of some pounds on the weight. He tipped the beam at 165½ in his fighting clothes, while Gibbons weighed 155½ in ring clothes, sweater and pants.
1915-05-27 The Evening World (New York, NY) (page 14)
Gibbons weighed 155 pounds last night in ring costume and trousers, and Houck 165½. They had agreed to make 159 pounds ringside.
1915-05-27 The New York Herald (New York, NY) (page 8)
Houck weighed 165½ and Gibbons 155, both in full ring costume, although they had agreed to make 158 ringside.


May 31, 1915 Mike Gibbons D-NWS10 Soldier Bartfield
1915-06-01 The New York Press (New York, NY) (page 8)
The ringside weights were announced as Gibbons 155 pounds, Bartfield 148.


May 18, 1916 Mike Gibbons W-NWS10 Ted Kid Lewis
1916-05-19 The New York Herald (New York, NY) (page 12)
Lewis weighed only 143 pounds, while Gibbons tipped the beam at 152½, and could not say that he was drawn too fine, as he did when he fought McFarland.
1916-05-19 The New York Press (New York, NY) (page 11)
By GEORGE B. UNDERWOOD.
the weights were announced as Gibbons, 152½ pounds, Lewis, 143 pounds


But, no, we must take all these "announced at ringside" weights for granted and ignore the cases when he weighed in with full clothes on, he was consistently weighing in mid-150's, I'm tellin' ya.