Pacman since he fought Marquez has been matched too well?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by rainmaker, Mar 16, 2010.


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  1. rainmaker

    rainmaker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I am sure everyone is aware of Manny Pacquiao's meteoric rise since he stepped up in weight. His resume reads very well indeed, and without down playing his achievements, could it be that style wise, he was matched very well with his opponents. Now don't misunderstand what I just said, use your own judgement on the credibility of those wins.

    What I want to talk about is style v style within the context of pacman and his last few opponents. The point I am trying to make here, is that style wise, Pacman perhaps had the beating of Diaz, Oscar, Hatton, Cotto and Clottey. Taking a faded Oscar aside, who style wise, posed problems for his opponents when he was in his prime, and would have done so to Pacman if the pair fought prime for prime. Take the style of Oscar today, yes he was drained, but you could clearly see the reflexes weren't there, the timing, or the speed. Further proof of that is his fight with Steve Forbes. Forbes, a good slick fighter in his own right albeit fighting well above his natural weight class, gave Oscar many problems.

    So if we take the Oscar of the past 2 years, with Hatton, Diaz, Cotto and Clottey, they all have one thing in common. That thing is their lack of speed, lack of head movement and lacking in ring craft. Again, do not misunderstand what I am talking about, yes Cotto can box, but his natural inclination is that of a puncher, his stance proves this, he is only on his toes when he is on the defensive or when seriously hurt, but as we saw against Pacman, he is easily drawn in to a dog fight. Stylistically, pacman's in out style with lateral side to side movement, and hand speed would find a home with his combinations due to Cotto's inability to move his feet and head quick enough to set up counters of his own.

    Moving on to Hatton and Diaz, 2 pressure fighters with next to no defense at all, but bigger men who operated at their weight classes for the duration of their careers. When Manny stepped up to lightweight, no one quite knew if his power would move up, how well could he take a shot. Many questions that needed answers. Pacman's brutal stoppage of both men, proved that, his speed, and power had indeed moved up to lightweight and Jnr welter.

    In Conclusion, this is what is posing these bigger men problems, the power of a welter weight combined with the speed of a feather/light weight. It isn't so much Pacman's defensive skills, as Clottey found a home whenever he attempted to attack. I believe that Pacman's success of the last couple of years is down to him having the stylistic edge over his opponents. I mean it's no small achievement to come up from a lower weight and take apart these top operators, but what would be the scenario if Manny comes up against a slickster (Mayweather), or a skilled boxer puncher (Mosely) Style wise they will pose more problems than the likes of Cotto, Clottey, Hatton etc. because they have speed, good power, movement, counter punching ability, more so in the case of Mayweather and that is why I think he would be a bad match up for Pacquiao. I see Mayweather being a little too cute, too clever for the filipino star and outboxes him to a UD.
     
    rainmaker, Mar 16, 2010
    rainmaker, Mar 16, 2010
    #1
  2. bulakenyo

    bulakenyo Am I a boxing fan yet? Full Member

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    Nah.

    It's all because of PEDs.
     
    bulakenyo, Mar 16, 2010
    bulakenyo, Mar 16, 2010
    #2
  3. VanillaKilla

    VanillaKilla Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Most people thought DLH would be too big for Pac

    Most people though pac/hatton was 50/50

    Most people thought cotto/pac would be close hard fight....


    SHUT THE **** UP :patsch

    the guy is p4p number 1 for a reason fool
     
    VanillaKilla, Mar 16, 2010
    VanillaKilla, Mar 16, 2010
    #3
  4. Babality

    Babality KTFO!!!!!!! Full Member

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    All these guys with no avatar and like 50 post. All alts.
     
    Babality, Mar 16, 2010
    Babality, Mar 16, 2010
    #4
  5. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    The same guys that now think Cotto,Hatton,DLH etc was handpicked are the same guys that picked against Pacquiao in all of those fights.
     
    bladerunner, Mar 16, 2010
    bladerunner, Mar 16, 2010
    #5
  6. horst

    horst Guest

    De La Hoya fights differently from Hatton and Cotto who fight differently from Clottey.

    De La Hoya and Cotto are Hispanic, Hatton is white UK, Clottey is US-based black African.

    Even to the ESB racist contingent, there is no common tie between these four fighters. Saying he has been carefully matched is dog****, this former light-flyweight who was at superfeatherweight two years ago has now fought three very different fighters at welterweight, the last two of which were top five (at least) in the division.

    Pathetic.
     
    horst, Mar 16, 2010
    horst, Mar 16, 2010
    #6
  7. VanillaKilla

    VanillaKilla Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :huh

    what the **** are you talking about? What does fighters race have to do with anything?
     
    VanillaKilla, Mar 16, 2010
    VanillaKilla, Mar 16, 2010
    #7
  8. horst

    horst Guest

    Are you new to this forum??

    There are many psychos on this forum who believe Pac is being matched to avoid a certain ethnicity. My post is designed to further discredit that notion. Keep your eyes open around here - you will see the theory being put forward with genuine sincerity by these maniacs.
     
    horst, Mar 16, 2010
    horst, Mar 16, 2010
    #8
  9. rainmaker

    rainmaker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Listen, did you actually bother to read?? where did I write he was carefully matched? I'm saying he was matched well, on reflection! not saying he was given these guys because he was assured to win. Just pointing out that he he hasn't taken on a bigger fighter who is as skilled in his offense as he is in defense. No one is saying Pac didn't deserve the wins. This is just a commentary on Pac's last 4 or 5 opponents and how looking at it now, neither had great defensive skills. Going to war with Pacman will only result in one outcome, and all these guys tried to do that! apart from Clottey, who showed a defense, and was able to counter and catch Pacman cleanly.

    So take a guy who has a decent defense and who will be clever and slick enough to counter, and you may see Pacman falter. Not saying he will, but I see Mayweather being too slick, and that's the basis of my article, how Pacman would fair against a slick fighter.

    Why is everyone having knee jerk reactions. Don't drink too much red bull. Calm down.....
     
    rainmaker, Mar 16, 2010
    rainmaker, Mar 16, 2010
    #9
  10. Stinky gloves

    Stinky gloves Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He wasn't matched well with Barrera and Morales, now we know Morales II/III
    was shot but not before the fight when the matching actually happens
     
    Stinky gloves, Mar 16, 2010
    Stinky gloves, Mar 16, 2010
    #10
  11. VanillaKilla

    VanillaKilla Boxing Addict Full Member

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    ok, but thats not what this thread is about.... he is talking about pac's last few opponents, and is not insinutating anything about race, or pac's entire career.

    He is just saying that, pac's last few opponents have not been the quick boxer types..... And that has some merit.....

    Its weird that you came out with that race stuff man :-(
     
    VanillaKilla, Mar 16, 2010
    VanillaKilla, Mar 16, 2010
    #11
  12. horst

    horst Guest

    It's not a knee-jerk reaction, it's a calm assessment of your biased and ill-informed thread. You are basically saying Pacquiao has been matched well because he hasn't fought someone exactly like Floyd Mayweather yet. So what is the value in saying that?? You can say that about anyone. Mayweather has been well-matched because he hasn't fought a carbon-copy of Pacquiao yet. Shane Mosley has been well-matched because he hasn't fought a Paul Williams impersonator recently. Boring, pointless drivel. For someone to face Cotto (aggressive bodypuncher and top 3 ww) and Clottey (teak-tough defensive specialist and top 5 ww) as soon as they arrive in the division is worthy of praise and admiration, not thinly-veiled biased criticism. Pac didn't bother with a Sharmba Mitchell, he went straight in at the deep end by fighting full-sized, top rated and very different welterweights. Full credit to him and his match-makers for that.
     
    horst, Mar 16, 2010
    horst, Mar 16, 2010
    #12
  13. kukoy

    kukoy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Why read the whole thing when I know exactly where you are going... Is it about all those he fought lately were tailor-made for Pac.

    Easier said after than before, eh.

    You analyze post fights well, it would have made a genius out of you if you and other critics have one-sidedly without a doubt pick Pac to win before the fights. Diaz, Pac was the favorite no doubt. But against Oscar, almost 99% of boxing analysts picked Oscar as the huge favorite. Same boxing experts thought the Hatton and Cotto fight were a toss up leading to the fight, although the bookies had him favorite.

    When I talk experts, I don't talk about the so-called experts here in ESB. :yep
     
    kukoy, Mar 16, 2010
    kukoy, Mar 16, 2010
    #13
  14. horst

    horst Guest

    Is it weird man? I don't think it is man. I pour cold water on that idiotic race theory whenever I am on here, and will continue to do so man.

    Pac's last few opponents have been totally different. Floyd hasn't fought anyone exactly like Pacquiao either - is he being well-matched as well?? Or is this thread/idea just bull****? I sway towards the latter myself. Pac has just had a fight with a defensive specialist, a type of fighter he hasn't fought of late. Floyd is getting ready for a fight with a big, powerful welterweight, a type of fighter he hasn't fought of late.

    Both men have taken on tough tasks, both men haven't fought anyone exactly like the other, and that's that. So tired of this infantile shite.
     
    horst, Mar 16, 2010
    horst, Mar 16, 2010
    #14
  15. horst

    horst Guest

    I know. How exactly are Cotto and Clottey both "tailor-made" for Pac?? They fight totally differently. And Oscar fights totally differently from those two as well. Is everyone except Floyd "tailor-made" for Pac then?

    If so, then isn't this probably because Manny is so good, and not because Arum handpicks different styles that are all tailor-made for Pac?!?! :dead
     
    horst, Mar 16, 2010
    horst, Mar 16, 2010
    #15
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