pacman v tito at 147

I can definitely understand why anyone would see a stoppage win for Tito. For some reason, I just don't see it happening though. Tito couldn't land cleanly or consistently enough on Oscar to do the Golden Boy any damage, and Pac at ww is faster of foot and hand than Oscar, and has better stamina. I just can't see Tito getting to him.

If Tito had the ability to cut the ring off like prime Chavez did, I think he would win, but I don't see Tito pinning him down. Pac in, hit, and gone, for 12 rounds. Decision win, with maybe even a KD or two thrown in for fun as Tito gets careless.

 

Question is, does Pacquiao have the mentality to run away from Tito for 12 rounds. Let's credit Oscar for boxing effectively, but he was practically running away from Tito for long periods of their fight. I have my doubts whether or not Manny has the mindset to do it. As far as Tito being knocked down, I'd pretty much count on that happening. He suffered a lot of knockdowns in his career, but I never questioned his chin. Just balance issues if you ask me.

Interesting comment regarding Chavez, do you see Chavez beating Pacquiao at 135 or 140?

 

I didn't say Pac would run for 12 rounds, he's not David Haye. I think he could do the old in-and-out with Tito, because Tito wasn't a great counterpuncher, didn't have great timing, and wasn't great at cutting off the ring. As long as Pac maintained a high pace, keep his hands up, and didn't stand and trade for longer than a few seconds at a time, I'd back him to pull this off.

I'm not sure if it really was just balance with Tito. I think with some fighters, most or all of their KD's were down to balance (like Whitaker). Others have some due to balance, and some just due to being caught with a good shot and being momentarily hurt (like Calzaghe, Hamed, and IMO Tito). But regardless, I do not believe Pac would stop Tito, who was a gutsy ******* and strong as an ox.

I think Chavez beats Pac at 130, 135 and 140. Stylistically, he is bad fight for Manny. I'm a great believer in Chavez's h2h ability. I think he convincingly beats Mayweather at 130 and 135 as well. Not so sure about 140, but if I had to make a pick I'd probably still edge with JCC. When you have someone who is so good at cutting off the ring, so defensively adept, so resilient, and with such a good arsenal of punches, it takes a certain type of fighter to beat him. I don't think Pacquiao or Mayweather have the necessary attributes. I don't think many fighters from history do.

 

I just said run, because I thought Oscar was doing that for long periods of his fight with Trinidad, which will be why he didn't take much damage if any that night. I've never been convinced that Manny is all that great defensively, and Saturday night only raised more doubts. People were adamant that Cotto didn't have the hand-speed to trouble Manny Pacquiao, but he was getting hit regardless. If you had told people Cotto would land his left hook multiple times before the fight, I'm willing to guess most of them would have assumed a knockout victory in favor of the Pueto Rican.

Manny didn't just surprise the people who picked against him, he surprised people like you too...because he was able to take the firepower as well give it in abundance. He is not an elusive target, he will get hit by a Tito Trinidad, and it's just a matter of whether or not we're underestimating his punch resistance or overestimating it. Bernard Hopkins, Winky Wright both beat Trinidad. What do those fighters have in common? I dismissed the Jones fight, it was a circus show.

Maybe so, but Trinidad took Fernando Vargas's best shots at 154lbs, and Hopkins had to brutalise him for the best part of 11 rounds to get the stoppage, a fighter who's now campaigning, very successfully, as a Light Heavyweight. We're in agreement that Manny wouldn't knock Trinidad out.

Not many fighter in history put their punches together as well as Julio Cesar Chavez did, that is for sure. Manny would land a fair share of shots though.

 

Does Tito have to weigh 145

Its an interesting match up, points:

1. Tito is about 4 inches taller than anyone Pacs faced
2. Pac maybe able to get in and out like DLH managed
3. Pac imo has enough power to hurt Tito
4. Pac might get decimated himself

I dont like to pick a winner

 

Tito hits way way harder than anyone Pacquiao's faced, even Oscar. If Manny had shown the ability to go a whole fight without being hit against the calibre of fighter like Tito then I'd be more confident in picking him. I think a Tito left landing is inevitable, and I think the knockout is equally inevitable as a result.

 

you said it. when they trade, how can you not favor trinidad. and you can talk about speed but trinidad was fast hands himself. and trinidad's chin isnt as bad as some say. he was only koed once and that was to a prime hopkins, an atg. if a prime trindad was around, pac and roach wouldnt go near him.

 

There's no way Pacquia would treat Tito Trinidad like he abused Cotto imo.

 

The Pac bandwagon is moving forward full steam. To not think the size and power advantage that Trinidad had over most welterweight wouldnt be a huge factor is absolutely ridiculous. Whitaker showed nothing against Trinidad either, he took a one sided beating, and thats what he showed, he could take one, not to mention he was shot to pieces. Some of you guys are going over board with Pac. Whats next, he would knock out Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins on the same night? atsch

 

As previously mentioned in the last week on numerous other threads, Pac was hittabl;e enough to suggestto me that really destructive punchers (especially fast ones, Hearns and Robinson being too easy examples) would destroy him.

However, for me Tito is nowhere near that level. He COULD be outmanouevered, could be nullified, and could be hurt (remember the one-inch punch Campas decked him with?)

I see Pac dropping Tito early and beffudling him with movement. Can he stay away for the whole duration? No, I don't think he could. Whilst waiting for Cotto to open up with shots Pac was tasting leather himself. By a rough approximation I'd say Trinidad was five times the puncher Cotto is.

Now, a Pac win is not out of the question, for the reasons already put forward. I say Tito stops him, about round six.

 

Exactly, Pea WAS shot to pieces. Whilst much better defensively and for my mind, probably more durable (debatable, depends what you like, Pea was never stopped though there are certainly 'reasons' for Pacs earlier stoppages) he was past prime.

Pac is NOT. So would he be able to implement some of Peas tricks that WERE effective (and I assume Pac would study up on him if he knew he was getting in a Time Machine, he expressed admiration for Pea before the Oscar fight and said he was studying his performance) PLUS using his own physical attributes/superior punching power whats to say he wouldn't have taken as big a beating as Pea did (although Pea seemed to save himself from too much by taking knees late on) and POSSIBLY outmanouver Tito for the duration.

I personally don't think it's probably, just saying the Pea fight is not a great indication. So just agreeing with you really:good

 

This is pretty much my feelings on the subject. After this, Fleaman and I's verdicts differ, but this section of his post is my view.

 

I think the outcome's more or less on the wall here. Fast starting Pacquiao, drops Trinidad, false dawn, you know the rest.

I can break it down as well though, on request.

Good post btw Flea.

 

:good

Yourself and Tin_Ribs have restored my faith in this board. At least there are newer guys coming through that aren't total dicksgood

 

Like myself, do you see a scenario where Pac wins? I think there's a real chance he could, I just go with what I know. If Manny faces a couple more Welters and shows no effect when hit, then maybe he really is super-durable to go along with his unbelievable speed and ever-increasing punch-picking/technique (that plus his speed, which stays with him, is what's making him a bigger puncher as he moves up IMO) but I can't help but think about the 2nd Marquez fight where he hobbled like Danny Williams.

admittedly after a lovely combo from a fighter with possibly the best punching form of the past ten years. :deal