Pacman vs Ray Leonard at 147

Remember how after the Olympics Ray Leonard was the second coming of Sugar Ray Robinson?

Remember how he was dominated by the former lightweight champion of the world? I do. It was the moment when the hype was exposed as just that: hype.

Remember Leonard's puffed up face and teary eyes after 15 rounds of being outboxed and outpunched? Remember how his corner cried in the locker because their man was "robbed"? Remember how people perceived a close fight because they just couldn't reconcile the reality with their wish thinking? I do. It was very revealing of the way many human beings operate. (It's why people elect corrupt and stupid politicians and believe in gods and creationism.)

Would the second coming of Sugar Ray Robinson - "the most complete fighter in the history of the sport" - be on the receiving end of an ass kicking by the former lightweight champion of the world? Robinson faced many world class lightweights and welterweights. Did any of them kick his ass? No, it took a rugged middleweight like LaMotta to do that, and LaMotta took five losses in return. Why? Because Sugar Ray Robinson was the most complete fighter in the history of the sport.

Would "the most complete fighter in the history of the sport" look lost for 12 rounds against Thomas Hearns (but for a brief lapse in Tommy's attention in round 6), an excellent but otherwise multiply-flawed fighter?

See, this is what I am talking about. Ray Leonard was a terrific fighter. He was NOT the most complete fighter in the history of the sport.

Come back to earth ladies and gentlemen. You sound like some of the PacManiacs.

 

Leonard by mid round TKO.

 

It's not just about the calibre difference. Leonard is a bad style for Pacquiao. Duran could apply pressure more intelligently than Pacman.

 

Welterweight Basilio sure kick some of that ass.

 

Yes. However, I was speaking about Robinson at welterweight and in his prime, not the second coming of Robinson as a middleweight. Robinson was getting old and shopworn by the time he met Basilio. That's not meant to take anything away from Basilio, by the way. He was a welterweight against a fine (by that time) middleweight. Basilio was a hell of a fighter.

 

When Robinson was miles past his prime. Pre his 3 year break basillo would have not got close to ray, at welter or middle

 

Not sure on that, Turpin, Robinson, and other swarmers types always gave Robinson problems.

 

Turpin was physically a bit bigger than carmen though (Basillo was of course a better fighter). I fell its pretty safe to say that if Basillio went close to life and death with a miles past his best robinson in there 2 fights that a prime version would have done significantly better

 

Leonard never fought lower than 147, so you can't place him in a hypothetical h2h at a weight he never fought at. Therefore, the only possible weight for him to fight Pac at is 147, because Pac has never fought any higher. At 147, SRL dominates and destroys Pacquiao.

That's the h2h part done.

In terms of p4p greatness, Leonard is in a higher tier, comfortably ahead of Pacquiao as things stand. I have SRL around 14th I think, Pac somewhere between 20 and 30. If Pac beats Mayweather and Mosley, then a re-think may be in order. Until then, it's SRL clearly and indisputably.

Leonard was clearly better at ww than Pac has been at any weight he had fought at.

Those are the only ways possible to compare them, and it's SRL on all counts.

 

As countless Guru's would often say in my Morales and Frazier thread a few days back, "I think Frazier would beat Morales if they were the same size", I'm saying the same about these two guys. I'm not proposing they fight at 130lbs, I'm saying that the difference between the two is not 4 inches of height, it's Ray's superiority as a prize fighter.

We're talking about spilled milk though really, because like me, you don't give Manny a chance in hell in this mythical match-up.

 

"I think Frazier would beat Morales if they were the same size" = :nut

SRL beats Pac at 147, and was a better fighter all-round, and is a better fighter in terms of p4p greatness.

Yes, we are in agreement.

Silly thread, I'm sure you'll agree.

 

What's most surprising to me is not that this thread exists, but how many knowledgeable posters are taking it seriously. Leonard was an absolute monster at 147lbs, his resume there is simply astounding. Ray would have beat Mosley, De La Hoya, Trinidad, Cotto, throw any Welterweight's name out there, and he beats them in my view...with the soul exception of the original Sugar man. That Marvel guy who was suggesting I've bought into the hype, clearly hasn't sat down and watch Ray systematically outbox and outfight a prime unbeaten 147lbs title holder like Wilfred Benitez. Hype didn't see him cross the finishing line in that fight, his ability did.

 

it remains to be seen if pacman can even beat floyd mayweather, let alone srl.

 

To me, this is the same as making a thread asking: "Who would win between Floyd Mayweather and Thomas Hearns at 154?"

Not only is the fight at a weight not suitable for the current fighter, but the fighter he is pitched against is clearly better than him anyway, so h2h it's pointless in two ways, not just the usual one.

Drop Pacquiao into the Montreal ring in place of Duran, and he does well to come out alive, never mind victorious.

 

I'm not really disagreeing with you, but hasn't Manny looked as good as he ever has as a Welterweight? No longer are these fights unfair on Manny in my estimation, they're stupid to consider because he gets brutalized, but 147lbs might just be his best weight after all. Thoughts?