Pacman vs Ray Leonard at 147

People are really starting to get carried away, as usual. Pacquiao wouldn't beat Mayweather, much less Leonard.

 

Yup...No defensive maneuvering on Duran's part in any way shape or form, he just ran forward, throwing wild swings.

...Please don't tell me you think Pacquiao has a chance against peak Ray at 147lbs as well, Sweet Pea?

 

What does that prove?

I don't care how knowledgeable you are about boxing, it was a fight no one could definitively call. There were too many unanswered questions, the biggest one being if Pacquiao could carry his power up in weight again (which he did very impressively).

The betting odds were close, and nearly every analyst, regardless of who they picked, admitted it was one of those fights that could truly go either way.

 

Wtfatsch When did you start whatching boxing? Anyone that knows anyting about boxing knows that Leonard's power wasnt the same when he moved up. In fact Leonard was known as a puncher in the amatuers.Leonard never knocked out guys like he did at Welter,the Lalonde knockout was because of accumaliton of shots. Leonard was devasting fighters at Welter.

 

he picked cotto.... and mab, and JMM, and EM, and hoya and hatton. am just too lazy too dig his posts but self kill is a bitter ass when it comes to pac. fool is hurting all the time LOL

 

A few of the posters on this thread are indicative of why I don't spend as much time here anymore.

 

It was a simple question.

Well some people picked right some picked wrong, it does not matter if you got it right or not. If some one keeps on picking against Pacman and keeps on getting it wrong then maybe they are underestermating him, or look at his weeknesses instead of looking at his strenths.

Who would have though that Pac could beat Cotto a few years ago?

Then if the same person is laughing at me for "say" picking Pacman over The Hawk in the other thread, but has got Pacman's last "three" fights wrong, then maybe I can "be" right and their picks are not set in concrete.

I do not know that much in boxing, But all the ATG will have tough fight VS each other apart from the odd drubbing and it is odd that some one will laugh at another for thinking different from them.

 

I really can't see the argument for pacquaio in this fight, not at all, where exactly does he outgun leonard?

Now pacquaio has been amazing in his last 4 fights, there is no arguments there, however the main reason's behind his victory have come from, his footwork and footspeed to get inside and let his combos go and then move away before his slower opponents can fire back, also from the fact his power has carried up with him.

Now leonard took hearns shots, so i think we can rule out pacquaio's causing him any disconcern. Pac speed is also negated, i think leonard was faster but even if you disagree any superior speed advanage pac may have is negligable, and when you combine this with leonard superior reach and better accuracy when pac is coming flying in he's going to be meet with super fast counter.

If we add all of these facts onto that leonard was a far superior boxer in every way shape and form to someone like cotto who caused pac problems during the fight and marquez who for me beat pac then i can't see any reason to choose pac here.

 

Leonard would batter him. I don't know why all the insights are being thrown around, they're not warranted.

 

Not at all Teeto, Pacquiao just beat Miguel Cotto...so that automatically makes him competitive with Ray Leonard, who beat Duran, Benitez and Hearns at that weight...none of the fights going the distance. Leonard has seen it all. He's seen blazing handspeed (Hearns), he's seen unreal amounts of power (Hearns) and he's overcome a definitive boxer (Benitez). Pacquiao has nothing to offer him.

 

It's a simple, irrelevant question.

By my own admission, I have underestimated Manny Pacquiao, I don't need a delusional ******* to tell me that. Does that mean he would be competitive with the greatest Welterweight since Ray Robinson? Hell no. Leonard has already seen everything Pacquiao brings to the table and then some. What combination of Leonard's size, skill, speed, and power has Pacquiao ever come across. He won't ever come across it, because like him, Ray was also special. A force of nature.

Irrelevant.

Fair point, but you don't ever break down the fights and give any type of reasoning for your argument. I asked you, and I'll ask you again, what justifies ranking Manny Pacquiao over Ray Leonard in a p4p sense?

 

This would be true only if there were evidence that Ray took it away from him. You can watch the fight and see that there is no evidence of this. Leonard pushed Hearns down twice. He wobbles in the sixth round, but Hearns recovers and is soon back to outboxing Leonard. Leonard is supposed to be this supreme boxing technician, yet Hearns, except for one brief moment, completely confused him with movement. Hearns clearly overtrained - everybody was commenting on this before the fight - and plainly ran out of gas in the final rounds. He was flopping about not because of Ray Leonard, but because his legs were gone from fatigue. The shot that causes Hearns to fall backwards did not land! Hearns was moving back and couldn't keep his balance. Even when Leonard had Hearns against the ropes he couldn't land the shot that would finish the job. Hearns was never in trouble. Leonard depended on Pearle to step in and stop it, with Hearns completely in charge of faculties against the ropes. You are a total fan boy, incapable of objectivity, if you can't see things so obvious.

 

Fast flurries. It isn't handspeed and angles likes Manny or Roy Jones. And Leonard doesn't carry their power. He does a lot of slapping when he flurries, a lot like Calzaghe. Leonard's power shot was the left hook, which he did not carry up with him. Leonard did not have unreal amounts of power at welterweight. He had good power and was particularly effective against inferior opposition. Against elite competition, the story is different. His stoppage of Hearns, as I explain above, had nothing to with power (unreal or otherwise). It had to do with Hearns overtraining. Leonard never had Hearns in serious trouble in the fight. Duran quit. Leonard did not knock him out of even have him in trouble. The Benitez stoppage was ridiculous.

 

Not really. Hearns was devasating fighters at welter. Leonard was no John Mugabi.

 

I agree with this. But it must also be pointed out that Duran beat Leonard convincingly. Manny is winning all this fights so far at welterweight. We will see how he does against Mayweather.