Pacquiao Being Brutalized At Low Weights

Same here.

 

Both fighters are in their physical and mental primes...and both deserve enormous credit for even taking this fight...if both men choose to make this fight happen. Either man will have nothing left to prove in the sport of boxing with a win, and neither man will lose any credibility with a loss in my eyes.

No shame in losing to a truly great fighter...and both men are that good.

 

Fair post,whoever wins gets my respect!

 

I appreciate you taking the time to answer in a respectable way..it's often a rare commodity here..

I guess in regards to our conversation, we can always agree to disagree.

I understand exactly what you're saying and I'm sure you get my drift too.. If I use the example of David Haye fighting as a heavyweight. Can we say that David is a small heavyweight in today's era ? YES ! Can he still be competitive and dominate there ? YES !

All I was saying from the start is that Pacquiao will practically always look like the smaller welterweight in the ring. On fight night, you would look at him versus Mayweather, Cotto, Clottey, Mosley, Williams, Berto, etc..... and he would have the smaller body, in height, width, reach, just overall size.

Does that mean he can't compete with them ? NO ! He just officially proved that with Cotto.

Cotto not being able to overwhelm Pacquiao with his size, strength and power, doesn't make Pacquiao a full blown welterweight. It just makes Pacquiao a tough SOB and certifies that he's a one of a kind fighter !

...and in regards to Mayweather using his strength and size... In that particular fight, the reach will be THE main factor not the size. I repeat again, Pacquiao makes size irrelevant at 147lbs because he's that good and tough. Against Mayweather, FMJ's reach advantage could be lethal when you take in consideration that he has the best timing in the business...

Pacquiao's been training with big boys for a few fights now and he just seems to respond well against them.

I maintain my position that Pacquiao's body frame, not his official weight, qualifies him much more to be a 140lbs fighter than 147lbs.

 

I've never used the argument of Pacquiao's 106lb starting weight as proof that Pacquiao is too small for Floyd today. How big he was back then has little to do with how big he is today. But if you compare Pac's average weight in his last 5 fights to Floyd's average weight in his last 5 weights, you'll see Floyd is really much bigger.

Manny last 5: 129, 134.5, 142, 138, 145
which averages out to 137.5lbs

Floyd last 5: 146, 146, 150, 147, 146
which averages out to 147lbs

So regardless of Pac's weight when he was just a kid, Floyd will have about a 10lb advantage on Pacquiao when they fight.

 

1. Floyds body didnt grow 10 weight divisions up. Pac is facing a guy who is heavier than him fight night but is in same weight class as him because Pac's body grew to be that big, it doesnt mean hes not at size disadvantage. Duran's body also grew to be a MW, doesnt mean he was physically on equal footing with Hagler. Now if Floyd was to face a prime Hopkins at MW...that is similar to what Pac will be doing at WW. Pac is facing an ATG at WW, and Floyd would be facing an ATG at MW...both would have shifted the same weight from their first championship weight and both would be at a big height and reach advantage.

2. Floyds prime weight is 135-140, Pac is 122-126. That is 2 weight divisions apart!

 

Exactly. The only reason Wladimir is favoured against Haye is because of Wladimir's height and reach advantage. If Wladimir was was at CW standing at 6'3 tall with roughly the same reach, most would favour Haye by KO. Pacquiao is at a size disadvantage against the WW, just like Haye was at a size disadvantage against valuev...these guys are just that much better than their opponents that they overcome that size advantage.

 

Stop crying that your hero is about to receive the biggest ass whooping of his career.

Im sure the 20 million and more he gets will soften his wounds:rofl

You didn't have any problem pac fighting cotto, a guy who mayweather DUCKED REMEMBER LOL

So why you crying now

 

Pacq is beetwen one and two divisions naturally lighter than Mayweather. At the start of their careers both were carying the same weight (106), but unlike Maywheather, who brized through the divisions until hitting Welter, Pacq spent a lot of time in the lower divisions. Whether he had trouble or not making the weight, doesn't shadow the fact that he WAS making the weight at BW and FW.

Then all of the sudden, he exploded under Roach. FW, SMW now WW. But, while moves to 135 or even 140 were probably moves which should have come earlier on (though, realistically, the big fights were at lighter divisions at that time), moving to 147 is really beyond Pacq's frame weight, considerably beyond. He has troubles keeping his weight in the low 40's let alone above 147 (as most other welters do outside the weigh in).
I could argue Pacq isn't even a true 140 pounder. And keep in mind, this... rise happened in a short period of time.

In comparrison, it didn't take Mayweather long before he fought at welter. And he's been standing there for quite some time. This isn't Mayweather, the FW champ, this is a true welter, who, at his highest weighed 150 and who couldn't meet 144 pounds limit set against JMM.

Now, a top of 150 isn't really big for a WW, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, they can reach a ringweight of 155, but it's still pretty solid.

That being said, Mayweather is the bigger fighter, not only because of his... size, but because of his history of fights. He had ample of time to get adjusted to the WW weight. Which he did. Pacq could very well make 140, at a stretch he could make 135 too. For Maywheather to get even close to 140, he'd have to cut some flesh.

Still, weight shouldn't really substract from one's win. If Mayweather wins, he's going to get credit and rightfully so.

 

well said. And rightfully so Floyd is definately gonna get credit if he wins.

but thinks like size, age, ring wear, etc. should imo be factored in when analyzing a fight because they can have an impact on the outcome.

 

im sorry is floyd should fight PW and it be considered a fair fight

this fight between Pac and Floyd is fair and there the TWO very best....i dont understand the fuss.

 

I dont have a problem with Pac fighting Floyd either, but facts dont change, Pac was the smaller man against Cotto and will be against Floyd. Face it, if it werent for Cotto's size advantage, nobody would have given Cotto a hope in hell...they only did because of his size. The question was never about wether Pac was the better fighter, that was a given, it was wether he can overcome the size difference...and he did with power and just toughness even at these higher weights. Same way Haye overcame valuev's size.

haye is a HW champ, so he must be a legit HW right? That doesnt mean he's the same size as the klitschko's though, if they beat him a big part of it is due to their size advantage. I think Pac outworks Floyd and if Floyd wins, he would get massive credit for beating an ATG and a top WW. That said, if they were the same size, ie same height, reach, weighin & fight night weight, id pick Pac to destroy Mayweather...This is 50/50 because PBF has such a reach advantage that he can literally run all night and keep Pac off with that long jab.

 

I dont get what you are trying to say. The guy lost at 112lbs because he was weight drained...and he is now at a division he really doesnt belong at, physically. Duran was a great great LW, however later on he would outgrow that LW body...should he have forced his body to stay at LW Im sure he would have gotten KTFO. Just because Duran laters grows to become a MW and would be weight drained at LW doesnt mean to say he is physically prime at MW...he was physically prime at LW and he outgrew it.

Just ask yourself this, if Duran stayed at LW much longer would he have been weight drained? The answer is probably yes. When he makes MW to fight Hagler, would you say he was at disadvantage physically even though he would be weight drained making LW? pac would be weight drained making 112lbs...doesnt mean he isnt a former 112lbs fighter, Duran was always a great LW fighter but at some point, just like Pac, he was gonna stop being a LW fighter...



Pac outgrew Flyweight and instead of moving up, he stayed too long, forced his body down and paid the price...I dont understand the confusion. Now he is a WW with the physical talents but no doubt his physical prime was 122/126, he had no height, weight, each disadvantage and just as explosive, fast and powerful. Physically his prime was 122-126, Floyds physical prime is 135-140 where IMO he is a top 5 H2H of all time.

 

Good point Marnoff. Winner gets full credit but Manny would still be ranked higher all time unless Floyd cleans house at 147.