Seriously.... It’s so easy to try and pick apart just about any ATGs resume and make it look like crap. It just seems like people are so desperate in trying to undermine Pac’s overall achievement by claiming it was manufactured. If you want carefully orchestrated career then I can say the same about Sugar RayLeonard. -Leonard lost to a blown up LW in Duran -Leonard demanded an instant rematch with Duran, having Duran lose an extra amount of weight in short notice andgiving Leonard advantages such as the ring size. -Wanted no part of Hagler and waited him out after he went through tough fightswith Hearns and Mugabi and only came out of retirement after he saw that Hagler was slowing down. He was still gifted a win against Hagler even though Hagler was the champion -Fought Lalonde for a title at TWO different weights. This was the fight that was a total joke. Ray was allowed to fight for the 175 pound title against a champion who had to go down to 168 to fight for that vacant title at 168- and neither guy was ranked at 168. So he weakened the 175 pound titlist (Lalonde) and fought for that title and for the 168 pound title where neither guy was ranked. -Was gifted a draw in the rematch against Hearns -Got schooled by glass chin Norris, who Leonard was favored to beat -Got KO'd by feather puncher Camacho, who is a blown up LW. Overall, some of these fights were made with Leonard's demands since he was the media darling. If you wanna go down that road I guess you can say Leonard has pretty much carefully orchestrated his own career. This is just an example of me picking apart an ATGs resume and spinning it. But that doesn't make Leonard less of an ATG. Same can be said about Pac.
While it is true that you can dissect any fighters resume, I'm simply showing that Pacquiao has one too many asterisks to be considered GOAT, top 10, top 20, even top 30. There are many ATG fighters who actually beat elite fighters in their prime without special clauses, and fighters who actually dominated divisions. When Pac was most dominant 2008-2011, he refused ransom testing, so there is that too. Asterik.
Right around the time most everyone agrees the Mayweather fight should have happened, no? Which happens to correspond with the advent of the interwebz...coincidence?
Kellerman says all of this because he tries to imagine Pacquiao as a natural flyweight, even though he was a starved teenager back then and very limited. He's more of a natural 140/147 though. Pac could've had a chance to be GOAT, but after all of that time in the 140/147 range his best wins were Hatton, Bradley, and Cotto. He took bad Ls to Mayweather and Marquez and never fought Spence, Brook, Crawford, Mosley (when it mattered), Williams, Porter, and a few others. If he beat Spence or Crawford, his standing would move up a lot. The significance of the Thurman fight has been exaggerated so far.
I have a question for the Peanut Gallery And I think it bears on the discussion. Way back in the day - when there were only 8 weight classes and only ONE world.... On September 1st 1938 who were the Featherweight Lightweight and Welterweight undisputed lineal Boxing Champions of the World?
Pacquiao proved he could, as he did. But at WW he used them a few times. He dominated guys like Barrera and Morales (2&3) at the lower weights
You can easily make a very strong argument for Pac and Floyd being top 10 of all time, possibly top 5. Whether you agree with it or not is a matter of opinion, it’s just perspective and up for a debate.
I don't think he is being overrated as much as being celebrated by his era. Not sure I can recall any non-American fighter that generated the excitement of Pac. I truly think In time, his losses will be assessed a lot different than this era. In 2030 & beyond, they will be neither pro nor anti Pac. They will raise the question of how many ATG's got stopped 3 times. But unlike me, they will also give him credit for winning in 8 weight classes. They will raise the fact that he fought in an era where there were a dozen belts per division, yet he chose only one. WBO. To which I acknowledge I didn't think much of it, until Pac got it & defended it. He IMO made the belt, with a few others in this era. My assessment is cemented: Pac is the most exciting fighter of this generation and this era. Not since a 20 year old Tyson has a fighter generated goosebumps among fans. From America Hearns did bring excitement, but he didn't maintain the success plus move up in so many classes as successfully as Manny did. But he did get starched like Manny did! I don't rate him top 10,20 ATG. No matter how much cheering, I have zero ATG's who got knocked out 3x & didn't secure but one belt. That is a apart of my criteria for all, not just Pac.
The belts are not all that relevant IMO, its the fighters. Besides, 4 of those championships were lineal belts, the man who beat the man. Who was a better regarded FlyW than Sasakul when Pac knocked him out? To the surprise of everyone. Who was considered a better 122 at the time Pac knocked Ledwaba out? Again a shock to everyone, and defended the belt there 5 times. Who was considered better than MAB, JMM, Morales at 126-130 at the time he fought them? Again a shock to everyone. Who was considered a better JWW in the world than Ricky Hatton, the undefeated JWW lineal champ? - Most thought his win vs ODLH was a fluke, although he was a favourite over Hatton, his KO win was again a shock to everyone. And apart from Mayweather, who was considered a better WW than Miguel Cotto at WW? Cotto had close fights with the other top WWs of that era, Mosley, Margarito, Clottey - and Pac destroyed all of them all the same. The way he destroyed Cotto was again a shock to everyone. And recently, I remember threads from 5 years ago saying Thurman would beat Pac. So you can see the clear underestimation when even 5 years ago people thought Thurman could beat Pac. Yet Pac, again shocks everyone with how he beat Thurman at age 40. The fact that he's beating the most accomplished WW in the world, a guy who was considered the top contender from when Floyd and Pac was still considered near prime, and he's beating him now shows the difference in class, it shows how far ahead he was of the others in his prime. Only Floyd was in the same league, everyone else was far behind. And that's what ATGs do, they leave everyone in the dust except for 1 or 2 rivals.
Thurman was the fifth best 147 when Pac beat him and had one fight in two years, in which he looked like crap. That's why the fight was pick-em.
