Pacquiao is not the best fighter from the Filipines

Flash Elorde and Rolando Navarrete were both better fighters than he from a technical standpoint and I would have favoured both of them over the one-dimentional Pacman. Folks go on about Pacman being an improved fighter but he really hasn`t improved all that much since the first JMM fight.

His right hook is still nowhere to be seen for the most part, and his repetitive jab - left hand combination would have been taken apart by a fighter like Navarette who unlike Pac had a great counter right-hook and a nice technically solid style and was also a bigger puncher.

He took Boza who was on a hell of a run at the time apart with the hook and controlled their fight from the start, he also holds a win over the talented and very underrated and hard hitting Korean Chung Il-Choi and dominated most of the early/middle rounds against the exceptionally tough Limon, before fading and slowed down by Limon`s body punching and being stopped late.

Flash Elorde`s record speaks for itself, and watching him on film it is clear as day this man was a superior fighter in almost every department. He had a great jab and was a master at controlling the tempo of a fight, he made the other guy fight at his pace and not the other way around. He was also a better combination puncher then Pacquioa by far.

I did not create this thread to put down Pacquiao, not at all. But it seems that many Filipinos here speak as if he is the best fighter to ever come from their country when that is not the case. By the time his career is over he will be the most accomplished in terms of being a multiple weight champ and beating several good fighters (mind you some of his biggest scalps were past their prime), but that does not make him the best fighter.

I started a thread in the classic section were I pitted him against the outstanding quartet of exciting and good jr.lightweights from the 80`s, a group against he would have definately not walked away without some losses. Fighters like Chacon, Limon, Boza-Edwards, Navarrete, Choi and Arguello were all excellent fighters and Pacquioa would have had his hands full in that era, I mean we aren`t talking about an old Morales,Barrera and JMM here with these fellas I mentioned.

Manny cannot fight going backwards to save his life and against fighters who can take his power and pressure him he would be made to look very ordinary, and believe you me fighters like Chacon and Limon would have done just that. Just look at how much success and old Morles had when he went on the offensive.... Pacquiao was like a fish out of water and was helpless until Morales stepped back and reset himself. He is a fun fighter to watch mind you and in today`s era he has done very well for himself and I give him credit for that, but lets not delude ourselves into thinking he is better than he really is.

 

Those were great fighters but PAC would most definitley stand a chance against the best. He may be a bit raw in terms of his skills and craft but his heart is big and the fight he brings is big.

No one ever said PAC won on skills alone...its his will, determination and natrual talents that take him to anther level. MAB, EM and JMM are all great fighters and PAC beat them all. You say they are old but when PAC beat them they were still the best! They may hae been a bit past their primes but their experience and adundance of knowledge in the sport clearly made up for the minimal loss of speed and reflexes.

Don't be too quick to dismiss PAC as a great fighter. Even Flash didn't get the respect he deserved until he was long gone as a fighter. Looking back on PACs career when he is retired and done with boxing I'm sure you'll have a different perspective. Enjoy PAC while he's here b/c fighters like him, Roy, Floyd ect.....come along once every decade or so.

 

Are you sure it is Navarette?

I actually believe Espinosa is worlds away in terms of skills compared to Pac.

 

He is definitely not the best boxer..you didnt have to go all the way back to the past to give an example. Gerry Penalosa is better than him technically, even Gorres. but Pac has achieved more than they have or will ever have imo.

We all know that boxing is a contact sport, you need to beat your opponent physically to win. But does it mean that if you lack the technicality that you wont?? Ofcourse not! Pac has been criticized to having a 1-D game but he made it through the technically better fighters. Not to mention that he now has accomplished a lot of things those guys you mentioned didnt.

 

:good He is no longer one demensional but he still has tendencies to use that hammering straight left. I mean it lands and it's extremely effective. But now he has a pretty decent right hand, defense and better footwork. His game has come a long way in a short period of time. Fighting EM, MAB and JMM will take anyone's game to a new level.

 

roach did good..but frankly, it took away the tasmanian devil in him.

 

Charlie,

Believe me when I tell you I have nothing against Pacquiao and think he is a fine fighter. However, I have heard and read some things in the general forum that made me shake my head in disaproval at the ignorance and over the top fanaticism shown to him, and I decided to start this thread to remind Filipinos that there have been other great fighters to come from their country, and that Pacquiao is not the best of the lot.

As for Pac beating MAB, EM and JMM I do give him credit for the wins although the 3rd fight against Morales was meaningless as far as I`m concerned as he was a walking corpse by that point. Someone had to come along though and beat these guys and it happened to be Pac, good for him and there is no real shame in losing to him. But some fanatics here go a bit too far with their comments and it is clear that they have not seen and studied much film of other fighters if at all, and I take exception to that which is why I started this thread.

 

how do you define "the best fighter"?..if its skills and technicality alone then i agree, Pac isnt the one. or are we considering accomplishments as well?

 

Best fighter in terms of skills and technique, that is what I was reffering to and Pac is definately not the most talented of the bunch. As far as accomplishments however I said in my original post that he has supassed both Navarrete and Elorde in that regard.

 

:good

 

I agree but I think that was part of the plan. PAC was pretty wreckless before and while it was effective and exciting....that style is limited and would be exposed by a guy like JMM who is a great counter puncher. I liked the old style better myself but I know it wouldn't give him a longer career.

 

There are some fanatics for PAC. And I do see some crazy comments regarding how great he is. I will say he's a special fighter. He brings a fire in to every fight that captivates the viewers. He's not "beautiful" boxer in terms of his technique, skills or craft but he's got that unrelenting will that makes him fun to watch everytime he is scheudeld to enter the ring.

EM didn't look good in the 3rd match with PAC but I refuse to believe he was shot given his great preformance agaisnt Diaz at 135. EM for sure was past his prime but PAC landed some very clean/flush shots early on in the rubber match with Eirk. I think Erik was supremely confident going in to the 3rd fight with PAC due to his awesome preparations and wanted to make a statment early. Unfortunately that game plan bit him in the ass b/c PAC had the bigger guns and the right game plan.

 

Pac isn't yet the superb fighter that came from the south east asia. But he is one of them. He still has a long way to go.

 

Morales last great performance was his first meeting against Pacquiao, it was all downhill after that. In their 3rd meeting he had nothing left and killed himself to make weight, why do you think he came out on the offensive as soon as the bell rang? You say it is because he wanted to make a statement early but I disagree, I think it had a hell of a lot more to do with the fact that he knew he didn`t have the stamina to go 12 hard fought rounds against his younger, better conditioned opponent. So he went in there with a kamikaze kill or be killed attitude and got stopped in the 3rd for it. As for the Diaz fight I think he looked anything but spectacular and took a lot of punishment in that fight, and Diaz is as limited as a fighter can be. If that doesn`t show you how far he has slipped then I don`t know what to say.

 

Luisito Espinosa was had good technical skills. Navarrette was known for his slugfests.