Pacquiao is not the best fighter from the Filipines

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Raging B(_)LL, Mar 19, 2008.


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  1. Raging B(_)LL

    Raging B(_)LL KAPOW!!! Full Member

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    Jul 19, 2004
    Excellent post and I agree wholeheartedly. Asia has produced some of the best fighters the sport has ever had, unfortunately due to most of those fighters being in the lowest of the lower weight classes they get less attention by the american press and always have. Myself I have great admiration for fighters from Asia, and have well over a thousand fights on Asian fighters alone, some going back to the beginning of the century. As for the ignorance of the HBO broadcast it should come as no surpirse, as if Jim Lamply or Max Kellerman even know who a Yoko Gushiken or Myung Woo Yuh were, even though they had long reigns as champions and were outstanding fighters just to name two. Filipino`s have indeed had a long involvement in the sport of boxing, especially in the west coast during the 40s,50s and 60s where they regularly took on the best Mexico had to offer either at the Olympic or Forum, and they always gave the fans their money`s worth. Again, very good post you wrote there Luzon.
     
    Raging B(_)LL, Mar 19, 2008
    Raging B(_)LL, Mar 19, 2008
    #31
  2. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree in terms of overall skills, Pacquiao is behind Elorde, Navarrete, and even today with Z Gorres and Penalosa. But his punching power and handspeed are far superior to all of the aforementioned fighters.

    In a dream matchup between the 3 junior lightweights, I see Pacman earning decisions over both Elorde and Navarrete (over Flash 7 out of 10, and Rolando 9 out of 10). At 130, Pacquiao has not carried the 1-punch KO power he had at 122 and 126, but the speed and the aggression remains. That said, Elorde still had trouble with guys who engaged him in brawls like Saddler and Ortiz. Navarrete had a little power too, but I don't think he'd be able to stay off the ropes on a stiff jab alone.

    Then again, I really haven't seen enough of Pacquiao fighting southpaws with HOF boxing skills like Elorde. I'm unsure about my analysis about a fight with Elorde. I still think he beats Bad Boy Navarrete.
     
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Mar 19, 2008
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Mar 19, 2008
    #32
  3. charlievint

    charlievint Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jul 22, 2004
    You may be right but i'm going strictly off of what he said when preparing for the 3rd fight....if you recall he enlisted a strenghth and conditioning coach, nutritionist along with his nomral corner. He said right before the fight was in the very best shape of his life and he LOOKED RIPPED!

    I was actaully 2nd guessing whether or not to go with EM or PAC after seeing them at weigh in. Diaz is a limited fighter but he is a good fighter...there are many limited fighters but they still are very good....or good enough to be champion and that says a lot if you hold a title. No avg Joe can be a boxing champion at any weight.

    Although EM took punishment against Dias he also gave it! My point is if EM was so shot or has slipped so far he couldn't compete with Diaz on any level. EM always was one to take punishement to give in his fights....I'm not sure what to tell you.
     
    charlievint, Mar 19, 2008
    charlievint, Mar 19, 2008
    #33
  4. jupzrooni

    jupzrooni Tyler Durden Full Member

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    correct he is a very good counterpuncher although his chin is a bit shaky.

    btw i love your avatar it seems that you love great music.:thumbsup
     
    jupzrooni, Mar 19, 2008
    jupzrooni, Mar 19, 2008
    #34
  5. jupzrooni

    jupzrooni Tyler Durden Full Member

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    Nov 17, 2007
    i was able to watch some of navarette's fight he is a boxer puncher. he has solid counterpunching skills i loved how he was able to dispatch boza but he has a tendency to become reckless and to slug it out that's why he was always caught with a big punch
     
    jupzrooni, Mar 19, 2008
    jupzrooni, Mar 19, 2008
    #35
  6. Raging B(_)LL

    Raging B(_)LL KAPOW!!! Full Member

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    Jul 19, 2004
    Charlie,

    Surely you would agree with me that every fighter will say they are in the best shape of their life before an important fight, do you not? As for what Erik said about a hiring this guy and that I have no doubt about it, but that does not mean he didn`t kill himself to make the weight, the man looked like a walking corpse at the weigh in for the fight, abnd he sure as heck didn`t look much better as he was walking to the ring. Rememeber how Ali looked before the fight with Holmes? He, like Erik looked to be in excellent physical condition but as we all know looks can be deceiving and in Eriks case it wasn`t any different.

    As for the Diaz fight I still stand by what I said, Erik looked like **** in that fight when comparing him to his past performances, which is what I was getting at. The reflexes, timing and balance had all diminished considerably by that point and this guy Diaz couldn`t have carried his jockstrap five years ago yet he managed to rough him up and crowd him like nobody`s business which would have never happened with a peak Morales. Morales landed his fair share of leather, but only because this Diaz fella had the unique ability to consistently block punches with his face, why do you think he will likely be Pac`s first opponent at 135? Anyways, you see it differently than I do and lets leave it at that.
     
    Raging B(_)LL, Mar 19, 2008
    Raging B(_)LL, Mar 19, 2008
    #36
  7. Raging B(_)LL

    Raging B(_)LL KAPOW!!! Full Member

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    Jul 19, 2004
    Neitehr Saddler nor Ortiz engaged in brawls with Flash, were did you get this from? I have his complete, second fights against Saddler and Ortiz as well as some highlights of him vs Teruo Kosaka (KO15) and Vicente Rivas (W10). Elorde was boxing Saddler very well and had built up a significant lead before getting stopped on a badly cut eye, and whenever Sandy tried to get inside on him and rough him up Flash was more than willing to dish out as much as he got in return.

    In the second Ortiz fight however Flash had slowed down by a significant margin and was almost over the hill, and he lost almost every round before getting stopped in the 14th with a brutal combination that was punctuated by a left hook that left him out cold. However, at his peak he gives the Puerto Rican a much more difficult fight of that you be certain. Elorde would have boxed Pac`s ears off in my honest opinion, and this is not a knock on Pac at all as Elorde was a terrific fighter.
     
    Raging B(_)LL, Mar 19, 2008
    Raging B(_)LL, Mar 19, 2008
    #37
  8. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, maybe I was overstating a little. In terms of a "brawl," I mean trading in close quarters several times per round. With Saddler's style, especially in the second fight, I thought Elorde, while comfortably outboxing him early, was beginning to wear down. Saddler led with his head a lot.

    I guess it could be different in the sense that many of Pacquiao's fights lead to accidental headbutts because of the old southpaw-orthodox matchup, and that Flash was a southpaw. But I think that Elorde had not seen the likes of Manny's hand speed and incredible workrate.
     
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Mar 20, 2008
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Mar 20, 2008
    #38
  9. charlievint

    charlievint Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jul 22, 2004
    Most fighters would say that but NEVER from EM. EM nver prepared as intensley as he did for the 3rd fight with PAC. He may have killed himself to make the weight but most fighters are in the same boat with regards to how they make weight in the lower weight classes.

    I do remember how Ali was able to get down to 215 and how that was a big deal bc he was in great shape.....but EM wasnt' as far off as ALI was. That comparison is reaching if you are trying to compare the EM who faced PAC the 3rd time around and the ALI who faced Holmes in one of his last fights.

    I agree that EM prime would have whooped Diaz no question but I think you are cutting David a bit short. He's really not a bad fighter. He'll give many 135 fighters trouble and thats a division DEEP in talent and skill. But we can agree to disagree. Good debate though.:good
     
    charlievint, Mar 20, 2008
    charlievint, Mar 20, 2008
    #39
  10. nighthunter

    nighthunter Active Member Full Member

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    PAC is the best in the philippines, Asia and one of the best in the world even with a limited skill but blessed with talents...
     
    nighthunter, Mar 20, 2008
    nighthunter, Mar 20, 2008
    #40
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