Pacquiao knocking on Whitaker's door as far as resume is concerned

Well, he fought Pac at 130. So the fact that he is a 'top 5 ATG BW' is kind of besides the point. So to answer your question (carrying the analogy), no Whitaker would not lose to a top 5 featherweight.

And for what it's worth, Morales is not a top 5 bantam imo.

 

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Johnson fought Vorapin on the 24th of April 1999.

Pac fought Sasakul on the 4th of December 1998.

On the 4th of December 1998 Too Sharp hadn't moved up yet and he would have put a beat down on both Pac and Sasakul I'm sure we can agree.

As for Sasakul beating Yuri Arbachakov, yes I can remember him beating a FADED version. I'm sure you also remember a slightly less faded version earlier beating Sasakul, but faded nonetheless.

 

This is a good thread, good debate's for a change instead of the usual "**** off, dick you know **** all about boxing **** that goes on here too much".

This guy has it spot on about manny and if PBF isn't careful his precious legacy that he goes on about is gonna be blown away by Manny and the unthinkable is gonna end up happening, with Manny Pacquiao going down as the best fighter of this generation.

PBF need's to come out of retirement now and face Pacquiao.
Like Slantone state's PBF IS THE BEST BOXER IN THE WORLD, but Moneymaker it isn't going to do you any justice if you dont rise to greatest challenge's like Pacman does.

Stop runing now Floyd and forfill your destiny it should be you being compared to Whitaker!

 

He rebounded against a lesser Morales.

As for Pac improving, well he is improving his boxing skills yes, but as to whether he is improving overall as a fighter that's debateable. He certainly didn't perform better against Marquez the second time round.

 

Don't worry, I won't.

When did Too Sharp vacate his Flyweight title? Tell me the date.

Why would Johnson even think of going overseas to fight Pac? If the fight was going to happen, and I agree it was unlikely to, it would definitely take place in the States.

Pac was never on Johnson's radar. He wanted a fight with Johnny Tapia who was the most highly regarded fighter near him at the time and was much more responsible for his move up in weight than him ''struggling' to make weight.

My only claim is that at the time of the Sasakul fight, Pac would have been stomped by Johnson. The fight was never a material possibility though.

I'm not blaming Pac for not fighting Johnson, but I stick by the claim that Johnson was still the best fighter at flyweight at the time of the Sasakul fight and all the boxing magazines acknowledge this.

It was a great win for Pac to beat Sasakul, and it looked quite unlikely given the trend of the fight, and glory to him for doing it, but Sasakul wasn't the best flyweight at the time.

The best flyweight AVAILABLE? That I can perhaps agree to. I highly doubt Johnson would have given a 19 year old unheard of Philipino the time of day when he had bigger fish to fry.

Let's set the analogy properly. Imagine a 33 year old Tszyu fought and beat Hatton by a close decision in 2003 and looked a 'tad off' doing it. Then imagine a rematch happens a couple years down the track and the fight that actually happened eventuated. How much credit would Hatton get for that win? Surely quite a bit, but not as if he was beating a prime Tszyu. Facts are facts.

 

Yep. A lot of people are going overboard with his victory over De La Hoya. When you get to top-30 p4p all-time, you get into pretty ridiculous company such Armstrong, Pep, Whitaker, Hagler, SRL, Duran, Hearns, Chavez, Ali, and so many more.....

This is the kinda of hype RJJ got for his victory over Ruiz, which was a much more impressive victory by the way.

Not to take anything away from Pacman, as he victory was AWESOME and significant but there have been so many more impressive and dominating victories in the last 20 - 30 years alone to rank Manny's victory over DLH so highly such as:


Hearns - Duran
Hagler - Hearns
Whitaker - Chavez
Chavez - Taylor
RJJ -Toney
RJJ - Ruiz
RJJ - Hill
Douglas - Tyson
Holyfield - Tyson I
Bowe - Holyfield I
Trinidad - Vargas
DLH - Vargas
Wright - Trinidad
Forrest - Mosley I
Mayorga - Forrest I
Tsyzu - Judah
Tarver - RJJ II
Johnson - RJJ
Judah - Spinks II
Hopkins - Trinidad
Hopkins - Pavlik
Mayweather - Hatton
Margarito - Cotto
Darchinyan - Mijares
calzaghe - Lacy

And a hella of lot more that I haven't listed as all of these fights were beat downs over fighters in or very near their prime, plus the losers were all badasses at the time. Of course, like I have stated before, Manny's victory was brilliant too!

 

I like Pac, I've been following his career for a long time, but I don't see how beating
a part time fighter like DLH increases his ATG status so much. I don't give DLH or Zoo
much credit for beating an old Chavez. I don't give Toney much credit for beating an old
Holyfield. If Pac beat Margarito, Williams, or Cotto, you'd have a case for moving him ahead of Whitaker, but not for beating old DLH.

 

What do you mean they weren't moving up? Toney had just beat Jirov at CW and went straight up and fought Holyfield, who was favored to beat him BTW. Holyfield won maybe one round.

DLH was moving up to, since he had spent his career up until that point at lightweight.

It would be more impressive if Pac moved up and beat a prime fighter like Williams, Margarito, or Cotto. Not against a guy who was far removed from being a world class fighter.

 

amen.