Pacquiao knocking on Whitaker's door as far as resume is concerned

That is my point. Toney's win over Jirov is 5x as impressive as his win over a faded Evander Holyfield. Manny's win over faded DLH doesn't bolster his ATG much.

I think if he beats Hatton and then beats a ranked welterweight you might have a case for his resume being better than Whitaker's, but even then probably not. Whitaker was then better everyone in his prime, and he also beat a few ATGs (Nelson/Chavez) whereas Manny I don't think has (maybe MAB/JMM but I don't know if they are ATGs).

And I like Manny a lot, I'm by no means a hater.

 

With all due respect, your last sentence is a load of crap.

 

You have to add the way he has beat them also.

 

great post man. there lies the difference. one blessed with mountain loads of talent but with the heart of a *****.

and then pacman. limited skills but with the desire to train and improve his skills. and who the hell in his right mind would question his heart.

i have been lurking in this site for quite a time but i do remember a couple of people insisting that pac ducked jmm.

ducked my ass.

 

He did not struggle w/ Morales in the 1st fight (if you are trying to be selective as to choose only one fight. How about the 2nd and 3rd fights which resulted in TKOs). Pac was headbutted that resulted in him fighting w/ one eye shut, but despite that Morales was not able to stop him. Pacquiao TKOd Morales in the 2nd and 3rd fights which can't be considered "struggle". Pac also drew and won against Marquez. Although if the judge did not make an error, he would have won by SD. Not correct to say he struggled because Pac KD Marquez 4 times in these two fights.

How come you know the rules in determining who is ATG boxer? Is there any body tasked to determine who belongs to this elite class of fighters? If there is such thing, can you post the link to this body and those set of rules to give credibility to your assessment?

 

:admin:admin:admin

 

got to be the dumbest quote so far nostradamus in here never learns.
those guys were KDs more than 6 times. :rofl

 

Nice. Do you have some reasoning to back up that illuminating conclusion?

 

Morales was faded when Pac beat him. This is not a controversial statement. He was no longer the Erik Morales of old when Pac ko'ed him.

As for Marquez, I felt Pac beat him the first time round and had the second fight a draw (the majority opinion seems to be that Pac lost the second fight). Both fights were close though and Pac lost more rounds than he won, so I can't see what your problem is in declaring these struggles.

I go by common sense really. I could elaborate a whole criteria for you, but most things should be obvious: e.g. dominance, quality of opposition beaten, longevity, consistency, ability to beat diverse styles, ability to overcome adversities etc. All these things go into grading a fighter.

I think Whitaker has it over Pac in most of those categories.

 

You obviously think it absurd. Ok, so tell me why. Start by telling me that Whitaker could have lost to a Morales or Marquez, and i'll start by telling you to follow another sport. :good

 

In the words of the late Johnny Cochran..."That does not make sense""

How exactly is that quote dumb?

 

I better go back to the classic forum and allow you learned minds to continue your objective analysis. :good

Just pm me and tell me when Too Sharp Johnson vacated the flyweight title lol.

 

Oh please, I usually don't wanna get involved in debate when the outcome is clear but hey, to call Scientist a hater is just the dumbest thing I ever read on ESB.
The guy is just a random man, like you and me, who loves his sport, like we do, and one hell of a boxing expert. How come you call him hater when he clearly knows a lot more than you about your boy Manny ?

I think the win over De La Hoya is getting thing out of control. Ok, it was a great win for Pacquiao but remember Oscar was not the Golden Boy no more. Even a washed up Tito would have smashed that version of Oscar.

Now, since you are the one who brought this whole thing up, what do you think a prime Whitaker would have done to fighter like Morales and Juan Manuel Marquez ?