Pacquiao's Evolution

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by kg0208, Jul 5, 2008.


  1. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Over the past 3 years, Pacquiao has shown signs of physically slowing down, just as most fighters with his style do at this age. However, at the same time, he has been learning to refine his boxing skills. He has shown better timing, better accuracy, and a larger variety of punches to go along with much better balance and footwork. Mind you, he is not a world class technician, but still much improved.

    So I ask, do you think that despite his physical abilities deteriorating that Pacquiao's performance could actually improve due to his improved technique? Will being more varied in his attacks and better placement of his punches allow him to deliver his power with better effect despite it being less than it was at his physical peak and prime weight? There are a number of variables here....discuss.
     
  2. Lampley

    Lampley Boxing Junkie banned

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    At the higher weights, I believe the answer is yes. He can't overwhelm opponents with speed and power the way he did at 122, so he is forced to become more methodical.

    Put another way, today's Pacquiao (if he could make the weight) would have a tougher time beating Hamed at 126 than the 2003 version would, yet the 2008 version of Pacquiao can do better at 135 or 140 than the 2003 version of Manny.

    Ultimately, you end up with an interesting parallel between the career of Pacquiao and that of Joe Calzaghe, who fits a similar mold.
     
  3. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I see exactly what you're saying. Another angle to look at is that it may inhibit his animal instinct which could hurt him somewhat. But at 135 and 140, it could be a blessing. However, I still think that a good pressure fighter is going to give him problems no matter what he changes at the higher weights.
     
  4. Lampley

    Lampley Boxing Junkie banned

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    I agree. In fact, I still believe that the jumbo 130s -- Mayweather and ODLH, of recent vintage -- would have been favored against him. He never fought the big boys at 130, and the only truly big man he has fought, Diaz, was very slow and ponderous.

    No disrespect to Manny, who deserves (almost) all the credit he receives, but he looks vulnerable to me at these weights.
     
  5. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I disagree that his fight with Diaz was an indication of what he can do at LW. I need further proof. I said before the Diaz fight was made that Diaz was tailor made for Pacquiao. He is slow and plodding with a high punch output and comes forward with no head movement. Indeed I picked Pacquiao by KO in the 4th round and indicated that I felt that Diaz would be caught with a left hook/uppercut hybrid coming in with his head down. I missed on the uppercut, but not the hand, the hook, or the circumstances. Everything should be done on a case by case basis, and this was how I felt about that fight before and after.

    Now if he had done that to Julio Diaz or a fighter of a different mold, I would be in agreement with you.
     
  6. CJLightweight

    CJLightweight Lightweight Kingpin Full Member

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    i think as a boxer he gotten better but i really can't see diaz as a gauge. If it a boxer like jmm he still would need to rely more in his physical abilities rather than he's refined boxing skill and thats why he did better in his first fight rather than the 2nd
     
  7. CJLightweight

    CJLightweight Lightweight Kingpin Full Member

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    yeah i agee with you, i also don't consider diaz as an indication of pac's move up in weight, i still have doubts on what he could do against the top guys at LW. Need further proof:yep
     
  8. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Perhaps. But on the other hand, his better footwork, defense, and balance allowed him to score on JMM in the 2nd fight where in the first fight, he was getting countered more.

    He now has the ability to be versatile, and this could be helpful. Agreed?
     
  9. Simple100

    Simple100 Active Member Full Member

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    I also notice that PAC was not forcing the fight but actually waiting and looking to deliver his punches on better angles to gain more power which contrast from his former style in lower weights. relying solely in his power, speed and sheer of aggression... truly PAC is peaking
     
  10. CJLightweight

    CJLightweight Lightweight Kingpin Full Member

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    yeah, i agree with that:good
     
  11. jtgilter

    jtgilter New Member Full Member

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    do you really believe that pacquaio lost his speed? I don't think so, if you think a man who can throw more than 800 punches in a fight is slow well it's your opinion but for me it's still speed. And by adding his very much improved skills, he's a great boxed to be feared.
     
  12. Shev

    Shev Active Member Full Member

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    Pacquiao didn't evolve, evolution implies a previous lack of perfection.
     
  13. Simple100

    Simple100 Active Member Full Member

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    :good
    agreed
     
  14. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Speed has little to do with output. Margarito throws alot of punches, more than 1000 a fight sometimes. But his speed is certainly not top level or even the level below that. Williams is the same way, though faster than Margarito.

    Pacquiao's speed relative to his prior weight classes is slower. Even he admitted that he was slightly slower, but stronger. None of this matters of course. What matters is how those attributes translate in the ring relative to the competition. He may be slower at 135 than 130, but still faster than most LW's. (Much as Jones Jr was faster at 168 than at 175, but much faster than other 175lb fighters so it didn't matter much). He may be stronger at 135 than 130, but the fighters at 135 can take a punch better than 130lb fighters can.
     
  15. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree.....and unless Valero hits much harder than I think he does (despite his perfect KO record) I think Pacquiao stops him in 5 or less. Good tuneup though.