Pacquiao's Evolution

KG by the way I am getting some Marc 'too sharp' Johnson on Monday as well as some Ismael Laguna.

But I know you have seen Too Sharp if I remember correctly.

 

I dont see the vast improvement that you see. I saw some improvement in the way that Pac was concious of not to go one two crazy as he did in his first fight with JMM. He definitely was more patient in his attack......but patience is one thing and boxing in another.
I did'nt see any consistent stretches where Pac even competed with JMM boxingwise.
The time that Pac was able to put some shots together in that fight was round 3 and 10, and it was right after JMM had gotten stunned by a big shot.
The big shot is what abled Pac to put punches together vs JMM, I never saw Pac putting punches together effectively by simply just boxing.

In other words, there is'nt a single round in either of their fights that I can say, Pac won that round, he outboxed JMM!
Pac did'nt win rounds off of JMM by outboxing him.
......and I can say that of every round that Pac fought against David Diaz.
Pac outboxed David Diaz every round they fought.



Thats why I'm saying that I see some improvement of Pac as a boxer, but not of the lenghths talked about in this thread.

Lets see how Pac does against a good solid boxer, and that will able me to determine just how much Pac has improved as a boxer.

 

i only see a few improvements like his ability to block some of the punches and not as aggressive as he is unlike in the 1st fight but by doing so he avoided being countered too often.

 

Can you remind me what your impressions where of Johnson?

 

Thanks!

Anyways, I gotta disagree with Divac a little here, Pac has shown a lot of improvement. May be difficult to see if watched on a performance basis, but if you watched footage from the early 2000's and today it would really be demonstrative IMO. He isn't the technical boxer and won't be, but he has some variation now.

 

I thing we're closer in our assesments than you might think kg......

......but from my way of looking at it, what good is showing more patience and footwork if its not helping you win rounds.....
.....I scored both of their fights the same, 9-3 JMM in rounds.

But I do agree with your point, that Pac could have shown improvement vs JMM without having won the round by boxing.
....and I do agree with you on that point, which is why I said earlier that I did believe there was some improvement in Pac's boxing.

For instance, imo MAB is'nt a better boxer than JMM, yet MAB is good enough as a boxer to take some rounds in the long haul of a fight by boxing.
This is the guage that I'm using when assesing Manny Pacquiao.
Pacquiao though improved, has'nt improved enough to take rounds from JMM by strictly boxing, yet a good to very good boxer like MAB is good enough to do it.

 

A variation imo that he likely was capable of even way back then, but did'nt feel the need to use in a fight because he was that much stronger and more powerful in those lower weight classes.

Moving up in weight, he's being forced to use more boxing, and alot of it could be things that he was already capable of but never felt the need to implement.
Certainly during his first fight with MAB, Pac did'nt strike me as being a mono-dimensional boxer. I thought he was more than that, or MAB surely would have solved him.

 

The main asset Pac has is his punch. He has learned new things and he can box more than lets say 4 or 5 years ago, but power and hand speed are still his best assets.

Without power Pac is vulnerable, very vulnerable. I would say that without power he wouldn't be able to win rounds if he had to face someone like JMM or any boxer with good skills.

The moment that his opponents can stand in from of him without worrying about his punch, that will be the moment that Pac will lose badly.

There is another scenario that can prove that Pac improvements are not enough even with his punch.....just put in front of him someone like Mancini and you will see that he won't be able to outbox that type of boxer. He will go back to what he knows best and he would lose against a boxer with that style.

 

Very good points......

Could Pac outbox a Mancini who could box some but was'nt a great boxer......

How about a good boxer like Freddie Pendleton, to those that go back a decade or so ago?

Jesse James Leija who crossed the paths from 130 to 140 lbs?

Truthfully imo Pac could'nt outbox any of those fighters......and they're good but far from being great boxers!


Hey guys, start tossing some names of good lightweights that you guys may feel that Pac could outbox?

This may get interesting!:bbb

 

The Mancini example is not the best example, I just wanted to show a different scenario......Mancini was not a great boxer as you know, but he was a great fighter and he could box some as you pointed out, but the main thing here is his style.....

Pac would have only two choices here......the first one being to go to war in a close range for long periods of time, which is something he is not good at it and the second one....try to box, which he wouldn't be able to do because of Mancini's style and also the lack of skills to keep a boxer like Mancine at bay.

Your examples are good too.

 

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