Paquiao now takes his place among the pound for pound greats of history

De La Hoya's lost too many of his significant fights. Too many close decisions either way as well. A few decisions he won were debatable to some people, same with his losses.

He's been good for the sport over the years. It's now time for him to retire and not be in denial with himself about continuing. He doesn't have it anymore. Lets hope he doesn't say "Well, the weight was the problem and it effected my performance. I'm far from finished. I'll be back and contiune my career at jr middleweight"

Mosley is next to the electric chair.

 

Pac is the best, what other ex flyweight is gonna win belts at lightweight and beat de la hoya at 147. Mosley is next, its time for him to get taken out.

 

Manny Pacquiao is a great fighter.

I've been adamant for years -in barber shop conversations, on ESB against Duran's detractors, in writing book reviews for "Four Kings", that small men -Lightweights and below- who rise up and defeat bigger champions are something extra-special. Duran was a small man with a LW frame who was fighting great welters and great middles and sometimes defeating them ...even at an advanced age.

Pacquiao is a featherweight. His beating De La Hoya is not akin to Duran's beating Leonard, but it is comparable. Add to this his overcoming not one but three great recent Mexicans -a warrior, a boxer-puncher, and a technician, and you are looking at an all-time great.

He's a rare beast from the far east. And he ain't done yet...

 

Marquez beat him twice Pacquaio IMO, excluding any bias with me being a Marquez fan.

Pacquaio is a great fighter. His record speaks for itself.

How did you score those fights?

 

You have to take into account how far gone Oscar was, he was basically a sitting duck in the ring. Still a great performance from Pac though.

And I'm with Robbi, I didn't have him beating Marquez in either of their fights.

 

I'm not sure if it would warrant a thread or not, but I thought about this fight before it happened and thought De La Hoya would win, but in the back of my mind was the Jones experience. It seems to me when a fighter past their mid 30's tries dropping weight, it's potentially a disasterous result. (ie Jones, Byrd, De la Hoya). I'm not sure if this is a pattern or not, but it may very well be.

 

Pac is a great fighter, but he is not a dominant fighter in the mold of a Henry Armstrong. That's for sure.

He lost to Morales, and he arguably lost to Marquez too. I don't rate Morales or Marquez as highly as most, but I do rate Morales the better of the two.

Pac's one true great win is his beatdown on Barrera. His victories over Morales and Oscar were impressive, but both guys were pretty much dead it's fair to say.

He has beaten a lot of fighters through the divisions and so that puts him up there as a p4p'er, but I wouldn't favour him over many elites at any division other than featherweight.

Again, that contrasts to Armstrong, who was a killer from 130-147.

Why am I even comparing him to Armstrong? Because he is that good that he is worthy of comparison, even if he falls short.

 

First of all -great avatar, Robbi.

I wrote that Pacquaio overcame the Three. Whether he had help from the judges is beside the point. I thought Marquez won the last one and possibly the first one. If they fight again soon enough, I'd go with Marquez to beat Manny if perchance they fight at 135 -you heard that one hear first too.

 

Here is how I see the first fight.

Pacquaio won the first two rounds, clearly. The first one rather wide with the three knockdowns. Marquez was somewhat competitive during the 2nd, but was backed up and outlanded with power punches. Marquez IMO took the 3rd clearly with sharper counter-punching. Competitive round nonetheless.

Overall, over the last 10 rounds I had Pacquaio winning one round clearly. And possibly another, which was the last round that could have gone either way. I can't give Pacquaio 3 of the last 10 rounds. Not possible IMHO. While Marquez wasn't battering Pacquaio convincingly during the rounds he won clearly, lets say 10-9 rounds that were just about 10-8. That wasn't the case. But he was winning them without dispute.

Marquez clearly outlanded him and won the rounds clearly with better defense, ring generalship, and most importantly, clean punching. When each round finished, no doubt at all in that Marquez had another in the bank, then another, etc.

Pacquaio was predictable throughout the first fight. After dropping Marquez three times during the opening round, that possibly made him predictable. His jab wasn't a jolting weapon, it was used as range finder. The left hand was telegraphed and became easy to read. Marquez's jabs, bodyshots, counter-punching, and uppercuts were clearly finding the mark on a regular basis.

I think I had Marquez winning it by 2-3 points. While that seems close, it was clear.

 

I consider Manny a great fighter, he did everything asked of him against DLH...It's maybe easy to nitpick now...but last night, he entered the ring an underdog. Bottom line is Pacquiao fought a beautiful fight and carried out a brilliant gameplan...Nuff said.

 

I think Pacquiao is now a top 50 OAT ATG, I really do. His achievements speak for themselves - the first former flyweight world champion in history to win a title at lightweight, and now to win at welterweight. He really is a special fighter.

Realistically, if Pac fights Hatton he will win IMO. Speed kills. That will be world titles in 6 weight classes - if he can actually win a belt at 147 then that's the Magnificent Seven. I doubt any other fighter in history will ever win straps at fly and welter.

Throw in a possible SUPERFIGHT with Floyd Mayweather Jr after Pac beats Hatton (this fight will surely happen next year) and a defining 3rd fight with Marquez (I would heavily favour Pac to beat him above 135), and surely we are talking serious, serious ATG status, top 20 OAT?

Obviously this post is almost all my own dewy-eyed speculation, but it's all distinctly possible IMO. Legendary status beckons...

 

As I remember it, I scored their 1st fight as a draw by virtue of the 10-7 first round, and scored the second fight to Marquez by one point. No shame whatsoever in those results against the world p4p#2 who is basically a super, super boxer IMO. If they fought again above 135, I strongly favour Pac as I think he will cope with the additional weight far better than JMM. I hope JMM gets big fights now so he improves his own legacy too, he deserves it. I'd like to see him face Campbell, Diaz, and Guzman, and become the king of 135. I believe he could do it. That would seal his own ATG status too.

 

I think what impressed me about pacquiao in this fight wasn't necessarily the fact that he defeated a much larger fighter, or even that it was so one-sided. What impressed me was the way in which he defeated DLH; by keeping on his toes and boxing throughout the fight.

The Pacquiao of earlier fights...you know, the one that constantly relied on two right jabs to set up the inevitable followup left cross...is gone. The one that replaced him last night is considerably more versatile, and probably stays with any of the greats at 140lb in head-to-head matchups.

He's a hell of a fighter...and he's turned into a hell of a boxer, too. Gotta give him that.

 

I remember the first time I saw Pacquiao on a big stage. It was on the under card of Tyson vs Lewis. My thoughts then were, this kid is some puncher with a style that gives the fan's their monies worth. Nothing has changed since.

Great fighter.