Paquiao now takes his place among the pound for pound greats of history

This is true. Many thought Pac could only fight one way, but he has proven much more versatile than people gave him credit for.

 

Excellent point.

 

I agree. Marquez will probably lose the third confrontation, if it were to happen, with Pacquiao at 135 or above.

I had Marquez winning the first by a point 113-112, and losing the return bout also by a point 114-113. These two fights are effectively draws, as far as I see it.

 

i cant remember the first fight for some reason i remember bits but not all so i cant comment on it

the second fight i had pacman up by 1

but like people have been saying pacquio is going to go down as an ATG. he has an exciting style but can box when he needs to like he showed against oscar.

he has become the first flyweight to become lightweight champ that is some feat but then to go on and beat an ex p4p no1 (albeit when he was shot and weight drained) in an convincing manner that is some achievement.

i think pacman could be 1 of the most popular fighters ever in a world of constant celebrity he is worshipped in his home country, he is an honest man who has a great charisma about him and i believe he can kindle some reintrest in to boxing again.

 

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No, but that's irrelevant considering how shitty Oscar has looked since then (even against Forbes at JMW, where he didn't appear weight-drained), and especially how awful he looked moving down in weight, which clearly took an even greater toll on his aging body. Not only was he nowhere near a prime Oscar, he was nowhere near the one that faced Floyd at 154 a year and a half ago.

Pacquiao is a physical marvel the way he has been able to keep his abilities at different weights, which is why I do rank him highly P4P, but still, it's pretty obvious the weight effected a very faded Oscar moving down far more than it effected a prime Pacquiao moving up.

You're acting as if this is the same as beating a current WW or JMW champion, when in fact it's simply beating a completely shot, weight drained former belt-holder in these classes, who himself started at 130.

Oscar was a dead man walking on Saturday, that much is obvious to anyone who watched the fight. It's not all about what's on paper.

Still a great performance from Pacquiao, but keep it in perspective.

 

Because he wasn't obviously shot prior, not at JMW anyway (though he was clearly well past his prime and continuing to fade). Nobody knew how badly effected Oscar would be by the move down to Welterweight. On another note, nobody knew how well Pacquiao could perform at the weight either, which is why I do give him major credit for the fact that he was able to adapt so well to the weight. I don't give him credit for beating a legitimately dangerous fighter there however, nor do I think he'd beat any top WW's, even after what we saw on Saturday. It was very clear just from watching the fight how completely shot Oscar was. Apparently he was coming in lighter than Pacquiao and had been coming in at extremely low weights during training in preparation for this fight for a some time. This was a strategy by his management to get him better accustomed to the weight, and it completely backfired.

He won't. That much I can guarantee, not at WW anyway, and I seriously doubt at JMW either after what this whole process has taken out of him, even if he is more comfortable there. I think it's safe to say he's done as any relevant fixture in boxing, at any weight.

At what point in the past year (or two, or three) has Oscar been an elite Welterweight?

The problem with presenting it that way is that it gives the impression that Pacquiao was somehow a natural Flyweight, when that is very far from the truth. He was probably natural at around 130 or so, but his muscular and athletic genetics make him able to adjust amazingly well to different weights, which is the main thing about him that is so extraordinary in my view. Still, he was a young, weight-drained kid at Flyweight, yet to even grow into his body or especially his skills. Not to mention his championship win over Sasakul was a bit of a fluke IMO (as Sasakul was dominating the fight prior to carelessly coasting), and the result wouldn't have been the same in any amount of rematches, nor against any elite Flyweight. Still, he won it fair and square, no denying that. It still doesn't take away from the fact that he wasn't much of a relevant fixture at Flyweight outside of that one performance, and that he was far from at his natural weight there himself.

Again, Pacquiao's physical genetics and abilities are astounding, and his ability to fight so effectively at completely different weights is what ranks him highly in a P4P sense for me, but at singular weights he's never been head and shoulders above, or even established himself ahead of, any of the elites. He should rank higher than them in a P4P sense because of the abilities in weight-jumping I've highlighted, but I don't rank him among the very best of all time at any particular weight class, nor do I rank him as the best in any current weight class (even his natural one), even if he's capable of holding his own with any of them.

In that sense he's very difficult for me to rate overall.

 

To be truly considered Pac has to finish this buisness with Marquez. Too many doubts as to weather he won the fights or not. But they have to fight soon. Time is not on Marquez' side...

 

Janitor, where do you rate Marquez and Morales? Do you rate them near Harry Greb and Tommy Loughran? Because those are the fighters Walker was having trouble distinguishing himself from.

Bit of a difference imo.

 

That fight was at Junior Middleweight.

In some respects yes, but not really in Pacquiao's case, as he never sustained any sort of longevity there, and in his very next title fight was blown out in 4 rounds by Singsurat. And again, the way he won the title in the first place was pretty flukey IMO, and he showed his lack of skills and potential at the weight in that fight.

How do you mean? It's the main area I'm willing to give him full credit for, and the main area which makes him such a P4P marvel IMO. I don't believe he's spectacular or ahead of the game at any single weight class (or even neccessarily at the top in any weight class) but his ability to fight so effectively at so many weights is quite extraordinary, which is why he'd rank above most of the guys capable of beating him at certain weights in a P4P sense.

That's not neccessarily the case with Pacquiao though, not yet anyways, aside from the big 3 he faced at 126-130 (two of which were fading fighters, one of which he arguably never beat).

Also, it's not as if Pacquiao has made his career fighting consistently bigger men, or consistently bigger elite men the way Walker has. He's really only once faced a significantly bigger fighter, and that was the shot Oscar we saw on Saturday. Otherwise he's been well within his range.

That he was a P4P great, no questions about it, I'm just not prepared to go overboard on him just yet.

 

To make someone great overnight is to cheapen the value of the word great. Let's wait until he has retired then debate the merits of his potential greatness before coming to such bold conclusions.

That said, Paciquao has been ticking all the right boxers on the road to Valhalla and Sunday's fight was another positive step.

 

His seat at Valhalla is reserved.