Past-prime champions who would have beaten Willard under those rules?

"could he have beaten the Dempsey that Tunney beat first time?"

In a 45 round fight? I think definitely.

But then most champions I think would lose at 37 under those conditions.

The only ones I can see winning is someone who would have a big enough punch at that age to get Willard out of there early. Foreman? Lewis? The Klitschkos? Perhaps. Ali? Nope. Holmes? Nope.

The deck was stacked against Johnson.

 

I could list 30 or so heavies who would stop him in under 10...

 

Lennox Lewis at 38 would have destroyed Willard within 2 rounds

 

I'm recognizing all baubles for this one.

 

How's this, Fitz?

 

Only Lewis and the Klitschko's being super heavies themselves have what it takes to beat a decent super heavyweight in his prime while past theirs. Otherwise the weight, reach, speed, stamina, and power would tell.

Oops, Edward Morbius is right. Foreman could do it too.

 

Do you realize how limited Willard was? Slow, unskilled, just a good jab, big but slow right hand. Valuev mark one but not as big or as good, but a better puncher. Right man, right place, right opponent, right time. 45 rounds Corbett outpoints him, Jeffries knock him out mid way, Fitz might Ko him, he outlasts Hart and Burns. Just realized you said past prime, bit pissed!-Louis, Foreman, the Klit twins, Holy, Ali he'd figure a way, Foreman for sure, Holmes too.

 

Old Holyfield couldnt stop Valuev in 12 rounds, I think he struggles to stop Willard in the same distance. The big question mark here is whether or not the extra rounds helps or hinders holyfield, who was superbly conditioned. I can see him revelling in the conditions and finding away, but common sense suggests that Willard does end up catching him.

Old Ali couldnt KO Norton, Evangelista, Shavers or Spinks. How does he find a way to KO Willard? Willard does suit him stylistically, particularly in his prime, but the additional rounds, like with old Johnson, might just be a bridge too far.

Jeffries is a strange one. The only old Jeffries was the one who met Johnson. And he had an average early start and was worn out by the 15th. Willard would hit him nowhere near as often though, so it is a different competition and Jeffries might just have the power and stamina to knock him out.

Fitz swore that Willard was so dreadful that he would have been easy game. I think that Old Fitz that Lost to Jeffries the second time is a certainty. But if look a bit longer, perhaps the Fitz that lost to Lang and faded under the hot sun, it becomes a very different story. Still, the slower open style and fact that Fitz may be the bigger hitter and have less weight to carry around suggest that he is a pretty fair chance.

Holmes is a very interesting choice. But going the distance with Harris, Neilson and navarre, Donaldson, McCall, Ferguson all point to the fact that he needs a KO to win and like Johnson would likely fall short.

Lennox Lewis is the obvious choice. His Last fight against Vitali suggests that he is the likely favourite to pull off the feat with a KO before 15.

Wlad is probably the next best bet. I think he can wear Willard out like he is doing with everyone else and knock him out within 15 or so rounds. Still, it must be remembered that Wlad has in the past been prone to exhaustion. And a against someone like
Willard, who will take plenty of punishment, there is a very good chance that Willard will test an old Wlad's chin. (this is also assuming that Old Wlad is the Wlad we see right now and not a further dissipitated version of him)

Joe louis might be a good shout. Old Louis was still capable of unleashing some well timed pile drivers, even if he was not the same as he used to be. I think that Old Joe Louis probably does get an opening and knock him out.

Among others, Grimsley, Briggs, Savarese and Shulz suggests that George is not getting Willard out of there early. Saing that though, the old and ponderously slow George still had power and actually carried it late into the fight. Plus, in most of those fights the younger fightrers got through with movement if i recall correctly. I think willard stands and is there to be hit, so George would fancy his chances. It would still be a bit of an upset though.

Corbett was a good call. He is experienced at the distance, and the corbett who fought Jeffries twice, shouldnt make the same mistakes against Jeffries, or if he does, i doubt willard makes him pay as quickly. Still it is a long way to last and i think Willard would fancy his chances.

Old Liston, who was knocked out by Leotis Martin, has to be a pretty big chance. He was still knocking them out, and i cant see Willard repeating the Martin KO (although to be fair if i didnt know it happened i wouldnt hing Martin would do it either). The distance is the biggest problem and Sonny, you would think, would fall heavily in the later rounds if he doesnt win by KO. I think i would favour him though.

Dempsey that fought Tunney is a pretty interesting proposition, but i am pretty sure that he would not quite get the KO (it was hard enough the first time round) and would eventually fade.

Here is another scary thought for Seamus (or whoever had the Dempsey thought) though, what about if Jack Johnson, who clearly wasnt in perfect shape, even for his age. Put the bit between the teeth and trained flat out for an immediate rematch 6 months or less later. Would anyone back against him, even assuming that Willard was
in exactly the same condition? i think he is a certainty in reality if we assume that Willard slipped.

 

Very interesting question.At the risk of incurring your wrath, which lately seems reserved for Chokdrop,may I add the rider which of the other champions, in the same state of decline as Johnson would have been in front after 20rds?

Willard was extremely durable, the trained to the minute giant that outlasted Johnson may have absorbed Dempsey's shots and come on to take out an arm weary Mauler who we can see on film and who himself admittted that he was mentally and physically almost at the end of his tether at the time of the stoppage.

Willard v a past it Jack? Dempsey's legs were gone for Tunney ,would he have needed them against Willard?

I'm arguing against myself here but the weather conditions could be a very big factor imo. Intruiging point you've brought up though.

 

There have been more than thirty lineal HW champions.

 

Could 1915 Willard have beaten the 1919 Dempsey?