Patterson's first undisputed reign vs Frazier's undisputed reign

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Jun 22, 2020.


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  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I see your point, but I definitely think a Quarry 2 would have been better than Stander. If he defended against lower ranked guys like MacFoster, Bugner etc instead of guys he's already beaten it's one thing, but Stander...

    He had achieved nothing at HW. Lost every meaningful fight there. So he was some distance from being a a worthy challenger. Maybe that distance was a bit longer for Rademacher, I'm not sure, but pretty moot to me either way.
     
    Bokaj, Jun 22, 2020
    Bokaj, Jun 22, 2020
    #16
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Most fighters who move up in weight are.

    At one time Canzoneri was a FW who'd lost every meaningful LW fight he had, but then he became an ATG.
     
    lufcrazy, Jun 22, 2020
    lufcrazy, Jun 22, 2020
    #17
  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He should have earned his shot on what he did at HW, not on what Canzoneri did.

    Not that it matters, but Rademacher would, unlike Foster, go on to actually get some decent (pro) wins at HW.
     
    Bokaj, Jun 22, 2020
    Bokaj, Jun 22, 2020
    #18
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Most champions do just move up though, some have success, some don't. Neither here nor there tbh.

    No one goes on about the Foster win as great anyways.
     
    lufcrazy, Jun 22, 2020
    lufcrazy, Jun 22, 2020
    #19
  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Smokin' Joe easy, Patterson's post championship career was better than his title reign. Frazier beat Ali... there's nothing Patterson has which tops that. Frazier also had a longer reign, vs better opposition IMO.

    That version of Foster would smash that version of Moore to pieces. Ellis would absolutely school Jackson. I reckon London-Daniels is a 50/50, both are underwhelming. Stander would probably lose to Harris.
     
    George Crowcroft, Jun 22, 2020
    George Crowcroft, Jun 22, 2020
    #20
  6. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I go with Joe too but I think it is closer. London beats Daniels, Stander loses to Harris(maybe) and a heavyweight Moore beats Foster. Ellis should beat Jackson and then of course there is Ali!
     
    mattdonnellon, Jun 22, 2020
    mattdonnellon, Jun 22, 2020
    #21
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Who knows how their opponents would match-up, but London and Harris were ranked (Harris at nr 3), Daniels and Standers weren't. Neither was Foster.

    Frazier faced three unranked challengers, Patterson only one, while Floyd took on two nr 1 ranked challengers to only one for Joe.

    Ali was clearly the best nr 1 of these, though, and Joe had already bested most of the top 5.

    In terms of avoiding we have Floyd giving Harris a shot ahead of Folley/Machen, and Joe giving Foreman a shot ahead of Ali.
     
    Bokaj, Jun 23, 2020
    Bokaj, Jun 23, 2020
    #22
  8. sweetsci

    sweetsci Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The OP didn't ask who would win in a fantasy fight. He asked who had the better reign. It's sort of a stalemate. Patterson has wins against more highly rated fighters, whereas Joe has a win against possibly the greatest heavyweight ever, then chose to take it easy the next (nearly) two years. Neither were as active as they could've been. I'm not saying they should have been like Charles or Ali, but one more fight a year, a la Larry Holmes, would have been nice.

    Frazier was like Liston & Tyson in that he had some of his best wins before he won the title - the one Heavyweight Champion of the World title, not organizational or regional belts. Frazier was also similar to Patterson in that he had some of his best wins over highly ranked contenders after he lost the world title. Frazier might have taken it easy after Ali FOTC, but after Foreman there was Bugner, Ali, Quarry, Ellis, Ali, Foreman, and Cummings. All quality guys except Cummings.
     
    sweetsci, Jun 23, 2020
    sweetsci, Jun 23, 2020
    #23
    Bokaj likes this.
  9. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    Imagine seeing a Roy Harris(1958) vs Joe Frazier, or a Tommy Hurricane Jackson, (1957) vs Joe, or even an Ingemar Johannson (1959) vs Smoking Joe.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Jun 23, 2020
    Richard M Murrieta, Jun 23, 2020
    #24
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