Paul Gallender lays Ali-Liston II at the doors of the Nation of Islam

There have been too many rumours. This is just another rumour like crop circles and such like. It has taken too long to surface as well. There is nothing solid.

At best the fight was an officiating farce. At worst Liston let himself down like Douglas v Holyfeild.

If Douglas had mob connections would we be saying he threw the holyfeild fight?

 

I have tried to entertain the serious possibility but there is nothing concrete. The only thing solid is that it was an unsatisfactory result. There is such a thing as unsatisfactory results without it needing to be suspicious.

Liston looked like he could do better but the officiating was so bad we were unable to fully establish anything. There can only only ever be question marks. After all this time we can never know.

What we do know is what happened on film and it just looks like poor officiating and a confused, mild reluctance on the part of Liston that in my view is no worse than Douglas against Holyfeild or Witherspoon vs Smith and secondary to the officiating. Possibly resulting because of the poor officiating in that he did not want to get up whilst ALi was running around.

If it was anyone else there would not need to be anymore to it.

Even if there was I still don't think Liston got the chance to throw the fight even if he planned it. He was dropped legitimately then everything else went tits up.

 

Liston was actually on his feet & fighting when the ref waved the fight off, which seems to be oft forgotten.

 

And the fact that there was no count. Liston did not get one. The time keeper did not bang the count on the apron nor had he a microphone. Walcott had the right to start his own count only when Ali was under control. He did not have to pick up the time keeper count.

It should not have been waved off.

 

The fight was fishy as soon as Liston hit the deck with Ali looking at him in disgust and anger, shouting for him to get up and fight.
You see that straight away. VERY VERY BAD. Suspect. Fishy. Whiffy. BAD BAD SMELL. Right there and then.

You don't have to wait for the "bad officiating" to kick in (which incidentally, was probably partly a result of the dubious nature of the KD, and almost everyone's instant reaction to it).
You don't have to go that far to see where things went wrong. They were wrong straight away when Liston went down from that light punch - a punch even Ali, clearly, didn't think was sufficient. Ali could see what Liston was playing at straight away. To Ali's credit, he wasn't at all amused.

 

This is a good point. I accept this. I agree it was a light punch and I agree Liston looked reluctant and less than fired up. However, a light punch on target, a sharp one will cause a flash knockdown. ALI already scored with a clean right hand that registered earlier. He was sharp that night. Some of the fast light right hands that put big cat Williams over were no better.

What if Liston wasn't hurt but was waiting for a count? That phoney rolling around was play acting but what if he was waiting for Ali to get under control?

Maybe once he was down sonny was that disgusted he just dumped it there and then. Just thought "to hell with this punk" I don't want to fight? If so why was he on his feet when the fight waved off?

Maybe the nation of Islam were kidnapping Sonnys folks?

Maybe Sonnys ghost is telling Gallender the real story?

 

Unless you believe that the first fight was also fixed, the whole thing is a bit moot.

The result of the rematch was hardly surprising inasmuch as who won, only in how they won.

The earlier fight indicated that there was a speed/skill gap between the two men that was unlikely to be mitigated by an extra dose of fitness training on Sonny's part. He had a (seriously decent) puncher's chance, but he wasn't going to win a decision, and if he was getting embarrassed again, even after pulling out all the stops, fair and foul, he was quite likely to retire again.

Ali's subsequent performances over the next couple of uears, albeit against lesser opponents than Sonny, indicated that the first victory was no fluke.

The rematch may well have been thrown, though that's far from proven, but with the benefit of hindsight, I'd guess that any inducement towards a dive were pretty much redundant.

 

I believe the first fight was a result of Liston having a bad shoulder and taking Clay too lightly. He didn't think Clay was a serious challenge and thought the bad shoulder wouldn't matter. Clay would be gone in the second round.

The second fight was a fix...a dive...whatever you want to call it. Liston went into the fight intending to lose. Liston went down as soon as he was tapped on the chin.
Ali was too stupid to go to a neutral corner and let Liston be counted out. Walcott saved the fight for him by making one of the worst calls in ring history.

 

Yes but do you think he decided #1"I want to lose so I may as well make money on it", or do you think #2 he just went there not wanting to fight and quit?

I can buy that he had lost interest in wanting to win and was dropped because he was not properly focused. I don't think he chose to go over there and then, although I understand why so many think he did because the first round is the first choice of somebody who wants to throw a fight.

I am going to read Bob mees book about it.

 

I don't know.
Liston may have been paid to take a dive. He may have been threatened into taking a dive or he may have decided he had enough and lost interest.

 

I am leaning toward the latter because whilst I know there were sleazy people in the back ground I think the rematch clause meant Liston was going back into a fight without a warm up against a younger fighter he trained to fight three times, his disillusionment factor was quite high. Having so many people owning so much of him and being in the public eye all the time. His confidence was rock bottom.

Maybe Sonny simply had enough of it all and just hoped he would be left alone?