Pavlik Fans... Honest Question..

Oh, sorry. If that's what you meant, you weren't very clear about it.

Well, if Pavlik does lose to Williams, then he'll have to try and get a title at 168 and use that as a negotiating tool to get himself back in the picture. If he can use that to get some good fights and start winning again, there's no reason why he'll remain forgotten about. There are lots of massive fights to be made at 168 if he gets that leverage.

In other words, there are enough good fighters at 168 for Pavlik to show us what he's really made of, whether or not he loses to Williams. As long as the injury disappears, Pavlik should have lots of opportunities.

To be honest with you, it's Paul I'm worried about. I do like him (believe it or not), even if I think his management team are a shower of shite. No-one wants to fight him at 147, and 154 and 160 are pretty dry. I don't know how he's going to be able to nail down a big fight for several years if he loses to Pavlik. If PW/KP happens, I think PW gets stopped pretty nastily, and he goes back and rules the roost for many years at 154; but I don't really see him getting that massive payday or opportunity for quite some time afterwards.

 

Very astute and accurate post. :thumbsup

 

What he needs to do now is get better, get back in action, and then stay busy. Whether it's his mind or body that are f'd up, the only way to work through it is get back in the ring, then we'll see.

 

I'm often surprised by how little sense of history most ESB posters have. Hopkins and Haglar, two all time great middleweights, did not rule over strong divisions. That's why their best wins were over smaller men who moved up. The point is, if KP decides to stay at 160 his entire career, he will remain the dominant man for as long as he can make weight and be healthy at 160.

As far as a Williams fight goes, it's important to remember that we would not even be talking about that if KP had not repeatedly said "making the ****ing fight." Pavlik wants Williams because PWilly is tailor made to make KP look good. Kelly knows that, and that's why he was so adamant about making the fight no matter how ridiculous Goosen's demands were.

Paul needs to fight Martinez on 12/5. If he wins, he'll be the true world champ at 154 instead of just an interim title holder, and it will become obvious that no one else in the division can touch him.

Pavlik needs a good tune-up in January, and then jump on Williams in the early summer. If Paul won't fight, after all the **** him and Peterson talked, he'll be the biggest laughing stalk in boxing.

 

Notice how Pdub thinks he has a 'get out of jail free' on this one? He said he will NEVER fight Kelly now. Maybe he really doesn't want to stay at 160? His bluff got called and he got spared. Simple as.

Kelly still needs this fight if he stays at 160. Period. I'd think less of EITHER guy for not taking it. I said that about Calzaghe/Pavlik too. We see who was game for that one.

 

I do not think Paul meant to say he would "never" fight Pavlik. I think he only meant to say it's off as far as waiting for a new date.

 

Not the impression I got from the video.

 

:good

:good:good:good some one who finaly makes sense..

 

I'm a Hagler fan,and as far as history is concerned,outside of Hearns,Hagler's best victories were before he won the title against the following tough middles that were either from,or fought in Philly in the mid to late 70's:Eugene "Cyclone" Hart,"Bad" Bennie Briscoe,Willie "the Worm" Monroe,Bobby "Boogaloo" Watts and "Sugar" Ray Seales.Marvin beat every one of them.In other words,Marvin had a great resume at middleweight,and against tough middleweights long before he held the title.

 

Haglar also lost fights to Monroe and Watts, and fought a draw with Antuefurmo, a guy hopkins and Taylor would completely outclass, and Pavlik would destroy.

Marvin came up the hard way, there is no doubt about that. He was a great champion, and an all time great middleweight. He is always over rated on ESB more often than just about any other fighter.