Pavlik is following Taylor’s footsteps: fighting bums and smaller guys

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BigBone, Feb 22, 2009.


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  1. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    First of all, I like Kelly Pavlik and full credit to his fighting style and fans, he’s exciting, has a loyal following and he’s the deserving MW champion. At least was deserving up to one point. But his recent run and the future plans are damn disappointing. Is he following Jermain Taylor’s footsteps, who fought debatable competition and fighters from lower divisions?

    Pavlik since the 2nd, very close, debated by some, Taylor fight:
    -Gary Lockett: very soft fighter, undeserved mandatory, total mismatch. Still a mandatory, so we accepted it
    -Bernard Hopkins at 170: Pavlik heavily favored, and turned to be a total mismatch, just the other way around, serious schooling, embarrassing loss, although health issues
    -MARubio: another mandatory, another mismatch vs. a former 154-er. For the last time, we accepted it, but just because it was another mandatory, and a good victory for Kelly before his great crowds

    And what’s coming up, according to Arum?
    -John Duddy: total mismatch. Very hyped fighter who happens to be significantly weaker in every area than Pavlik, it should be a Cotto-Gomez type of brutal, bloody beatdown
    -Sergio Mora: what a joke. He had one decent night at 154 vs. over the hill, unmotivated Forrest, but lost the rematch which was almost a shutout. A 154 fighter with no power and any kind of advantage over Pavlik. Tayloresque opponent choice
    -Vernon Forrest: even more Tayloresque: don’t pick a MW bum, but a 'name' at a style, size, power disadvantage from a lower weight class. 38 years old Forrest, a former WW stopped by Mayorga, is clearly past it. Old WW Ike Quartey with a decent jab soundly beat him in a controversial fight, and no matter of his form, there’s no loss more embarrassing than his vs. Mora. He offers no danger to Pavlik

    We simply refuse to accept another mismatch. Lockett - Hopkins schooling - Rubio - Mora/Duddy/Forrest is a very unimpressive run for an undisputed champion, and it's not a division's fault. Pavlik’s legitimate NO1 status is in serious trouble. Not me, but many experts and fans debate that, a few now rank Abraham ahead of him (I disagree with that). While Kelly lost his fight moving up, Abraham stayed unbeaten in his non-MW contest, and beat Miranda much easier than Kelly did. He did it on Showtime, in Miranda’s backyard in the States, showing and in a press release recently stating he’s ready to fight in Youngstown, and his only wish and only reason to stay at MW is Kelly Pavlik.

    This fight can be clearly made, and with German money involved, it offers a bigger purse for Kelly than these smaller guys. Not only us, boxing fans, but Pavlik himself and his fans deserve better than fighting guys absolutely out of his league. KP-AA would pack the Youngtown arena again, and I’m sure Abraham made a fan or two in his US fight anyway, so this fight can pack the house.

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    Now quit making excuses and Bob Arum, if you read this, with all due respect, quit making these pointless mismatches. We are not stupid, and those who turn on the TV not for certain fighters, just for sports entertainment, will walk away from boxing if you keep feeding them with uneventful, one-sided beatdowns. With Team Pavlik being so confident of beating Abraham, there’s no reason not to take the fight. King Arthur would move up to 168 anyway, so the very next fight would be a title fight for Kelly, win or lose. I’m not saying who would beat who.

    Let’s not get into who would beat who. Let the fight decide that one! HBO is interested in the superfight, American fans demand is as much as any other region, just look at any poll or wish list, it offers (and only this fight offers) historical significance in the current MW division as a fight between clear no1 and no2, and both happen to be huge knockout artists. What more could you ask?

    So cut the crap, and bring it on. We, the fans refuse to accept another mismatch, and in the end (at the end of the day :)), we have to blame the fighter, who has little to do with selecting opponents. But Kelly is still fighting guys absolutely out of his league, and that combined with the recent loss, makes Pavlik, a nice guy, a furious fighter and a fan favorite look pretty bad.
     
    BigBone, Feb 22, 2009
    BigBone, Feb 22, 2009
    #1
  2. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I kind of feel bad for Taylor. He wanted to fight guys like Miranda and Sturm but his promotional team kept side stepping them. Now he's known as the "guy who fought bums and smaller guys."

    Feel bad for Jermain..especially considering that outside of Spinks and Ouma, he fought Pavlik twice, Hopkins twice and Winky Wright.
     
    Arriba, Feb 22, 2009
    Arriba, Feb 22, 2009
    #2
  3. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Of course, but Kelly was the mandatory. Just as Pavlik didn't have the choice with Lockett, or Rubio, Jermain had to fight him. Don't tell me his reign post-Hopkins and pre-Pavlik wasn't known for fighting guys from a smaller division!
     
    BigBone, Feb 22, 2009
    BigBone, Feb 22, 2009
    #3
  4. Hermit

    Hermit Loyal Member banned

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    Don't have much time right now, but I'm not letting the Rubio = smaller man thing stand. Rubio was weight drained at 154. He was shorter, but by no means a smaller man in the ring against Pavlik. If Pavlik beats AA are we going to here AA was the "smaller man" because he was shorter? I don't know what the prefight weight was because I couldn't see it on the screen over my shoulder, but he did not look smaller than Pavlik in the fight last night. Size wise it was pretty even.
     
    Hermit, Feb 22, 2009
    Hermit, Feb 22, 2009
    #4
  5. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not my point. My point was that he was poorly managed, wanted big fights but never got them because they were more focused on making him some sort of big money mid-south memphis sensation. I think that's why Taylor-Spinks happened because both guys were big names from the south (St. Louis and Arkansas).

    Pavlik is a similar issue...a guy being managed into the ground.

    Rubio was a mandatory so I don't attack him for that one...but Lockett...dudy...those types are bad.
     
    Arriba, Feb 22, 2009
    Arriba, Feb 22, 2009
    #5
  6. BADINTENTIONS2

    BADINTENTIONS2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    i'll be defending jermain to my dying days for the path he took to the middleweight title and the quality of fighters he's fought over the last few years.

    i won't feel bad for him so long as i'm here to defend his career choices - and thats straight up.
     
    BADINTENTIONS2, Feb 22, 2009
    BADINTENTIONS2, Feb 22, 2009
    #6
  7. Vitor Belfort

    Vitor Belfort Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Arum is known to guiding his boxers to last long. Everybody needs an easy fight sometimes. You can't just fight top fighters back to back to back. You gotta take an easy fight.

    Pacman-After 3rd match with morales fought solis before another barrera rematch.

    Pavlik after going up against miranda and taylor 2x fought gary lockett.

    Cotto after back to back wars with mosley and margarito had to take a breather too.

    If you take on top boxers right after each other it's gonna wear you out. Look at Fernando Vargads. He fought winky-quartey-Trinidad and delahoya in a short period of time. Where is Vargas now? Retired and he aint even old yet. Gotta take an easy fight every now and then :good
     
    Vitor Belfort, Feb 22, 2009
    Vitor Belfort, Feb 22, 2009
    #7
  8. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm all for breathers. I think it's important for longevity.

    But Rubio was a breather. There really isn't a need for another "breather" fight for Pavlik. Give us someone who can at least CHALLENGE the dude.
     
    Arriba, Feb 22, 2009
    Arriba, Feb 22, 2009
    #8
  9. audio101

    audio101 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's the best way to test yourself after a big loss.
     
    audio101, Feb 22, 2009
    audio101, Feb 22, 2009
    #9
  10. BlueApollo

    BlueApollo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think the Duddy fight would be as bad as some people are making it out to be. Of course Pavlik would be favored, but it would be an action fight that would sell out immediately. Pavlik can obviously be hit, therefore Duddy has a chance. It wouldn't even approach the absolute crap that was Taylor - Ouma.

    As for Rubio being "the same size", you must not have watched the fight or you must have had awful reception. Besides, I don't care how drained he was, he MADE 154. Pavlik has issues getting down to 160. He was clearly the bigger man in the ring.
     
    BlueApollo, Feb 22, 2009
    BlueApollo, Feb 22, 2009
    #10
  11. Vitor Belfort

    Vitor Belfort Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    yea true see this fight wouldn't be so bad if it was free in HBO. Why does he have to put it on PPV? I mean nobody know much about pavlik and cotto's opponents. They should have made it an HBO boxing double header instead of hbo ppv.
     
    Vitor Belfort, Feb 22, 2009
    Vitor Belfort, Feb 22, 2009
    #11
  12. booradley

    booradley Mean People Kick Ass! Full Member

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    We'll see Abraham/Pavlik by the end of the year. Pavlik reeled off a list of names: Duddy, Mundine, Sturm, Abraham. The commentary team also mentioned Abraham. I don't know where some people are getting this idea that Pavlk never mentioned Abraham. KP is also a Top Rank fighter, and every guy on this forum knows Arum tells his fighters not to call out specific guys.

    Furthermore, Pavlik is the champ. Calling guys out, and making the fight happen is the challengers job, not the champions.

    If Pavlik fights Hopkins, Rubio, Duddy, and Abraham this year, that's pretty hard to critisize.
     
    booradley, Feb 22, 2009
    booradley, Feb 22, 2009
    #12
  13. BADINTENTIONS2

    BADINTENTIONS2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    damn right.
     
    BADINTENTIONS2, Feb 22, 2009
    BADINTENTIONS2, Feb 22, 2009
    #13
  14. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hopkins was in 08 he doesn't count.

    If Pavlik takes on Abraham or Sturm or even Paul Williams, all is well really. I just don't think it'll happen by no fault of Kelly's.
     
    Arriba, Feb 22, 2009
    Arriba, Feb 22, 2009
    #14
  15. booradley

    booradley Mean People Kick Ass! Full Member

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    Yep, Hops in '08, but hey, I haven't even had coffee yet, cut me some slack:nut

    Williams? Why would he fight a guy who just lost to Winky? And williams will lose to Winky.
     
    booradley, Feb 22, 2009
    booradley, Feb 22, 2009
    #15
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