PAVLIk -MORA is on!!

Ikeke is one of his best wins and a P4P favorite going in the fight. If we're talking about defenses then he has Miranda on the list twice. Kelly can't brag much about his title defenses either, he had one against Taylor and nothing worth mentioning from there.

One thing is for sure, both fought their mandatories and I would easily say that Abraham's opponents/mandatories are far better than Pavlik's.

 

How did Williams have his chance?, when Arum claimed they wanted more than they deserved and said he DOESN'T want to deal with Goossen again?. If you're going to tell me you're believing Arum then I can easily see your love for Pavlik is blinding you.

Williams didn't get his chance and negotiating again is always an option, did they call out Sturm the way Abraham did?, I don't think so, if they did, show me please. Manfredo at this point looks better than Mora, Mora's last fight is a loss at 154 to Vernon Forrest. Manfredo is also AT LEAST ranked there, Mora isn't even ranked a middleweight.

 

The thing is Abraham is not fighting the best, BUT he is not fighting Lockett Rubio and mora:yikes I know boo will disagree with this because he is an avid pavlik fan and so am I, but that guy abrahm fought last, that lajuan simon will EASILY beat any of Kellys last 3 opponents. Now lets us look at the flipside. Kelly did fight JT twice(I myself NEVER regarded JT what HBO wanted to make him like the 2nd cominG), FIRST fight was a KTFO and 2nd fight I had it a draw. Then the hopkins fight which I don't want to mention. Boo says his fights with zertuche zuniga and mckart are good fights, that is fine, but I do agree with you scar on one thing, THERE IS NOT A HUGE DIFFERENCE in opposition other then taylor.

 

Marquez:think He fought a draw with shot to **** McKart one fight before he beat Lorenzo.

Simon:think One fight before Abraham he fought Jose Spearman, a guy McKart beat 7 shades of **** out of at ****ing 168!

Lorenzo:think Lost a fight to Marquez who fought a draw with McKart who beat the **** out of Spearman who was Simon's last opponent.

The record speaks for itself. Arthur's recent competition at 160 consists of guys on par with a worn out Bronco McKart.

 

Boo what you mention are facts but the following is also debateable in my opinion:
LORENZO>MORA
SIMON>RUBIO
MARQUEZ>LOCKETT

 

Abraham's team had eyes on Lorenzo who was highly regarded and undefeated no matter how hard you will try to deny it. Marquez got the job done and earned his shot, hardly handpicking there.

We can go on all day about his other opponents, fact is Abraham's defenses wipe the floor with Pavlik and judging by Pavlik's future fight he's not doing anything to improve it. Hopefully they do sign the fight with Abraham after it and not a rematch with Rubio or Lockett.

 

You stepped in a pile of ****, and can't get out of it. Don't worry; I think I may be standing in one myself over Carl The Clumsy. I'm referring to times when we get so angry over a fighter's loss that we cannot, or worse yet, will not, see past our anger and look at reality.

You are generally a very good poster and very knowledgable fan. In fact, sometimes I go out of my way to read your posts. However, when the subject turns to Pavlik, you lose your freaking mind. I have right here at hand a list of medicore to good fighters who pushed Artur past 10 rounds. Most of them would not see the end of 5 with KP, and the best of the bunch failed to see the end of 7.

Shannon Taylor was coming off a loss to Raymond Joval. Ayala was coming off a draw with Sergio Mora, and that fight should have gone to Zuniga, but Sauerland and the IBF saw fit to stab Zuniga in the back. Jantuah had one fight at 160, and that with Donny McCrary. Arthur's resume' is very, very weak, and to pretend otherwise is a sign of your hatred for KP, not your true level of boxing accumen.

I think it may be time for you to pull the old "resume's don't win fights" card. I'd pull it now, if I were in your shoes:deal

 

I don't need to pull anything really. I made it simple and clear by tellin you that Pavlik's middleweight title reign is no better than Abraham. If Pavlik fought mandatories whio proved to be too weak then Abraham did the same but against better fighters. Abraham has been a champion for a very long time and some of his opponents might not be good enough for you but those are his mandatories anyway. I'm not really insulting Pavlik's decision for fighting his mandatories, he did what he had to do otherwise he would have gotten stripped. Same case with Abraham whether you like his choice of opponents or not.

What I'm pointing at here is Pavlik's choice of opponent for his next fight which I can also fully understand but won't support. The choice is as we both agreed in another discussion is that it's a stay active fight before he runs into Abraham as it's supposedly planned for his next fight. My discussion with Hermit was about how Mora is a weak opponent, he then twisted the topic about how fighting Mora for Pavlik is similar to Mayweather fighting Marquez and the discussion went all the way to here.

In the end all people are trying to say here is that his middleweight reign is poor and if you want to compare it with Abraham's then go for it, I personally think Abraham's reign is better and at least he is the one pushing for a fight with Pavlik just like Pavlik was pushing for a fight with Calzaghe. We'll just have to wait and see where it will go after Mora then we can judge, so far there's nothing to brag about when it comes to his middleweight title reign.

About my posts being slightly twisted in my discussion with Hermit, it's because he was playing the same game. When I see someone jumping from one topic to another to avoid a certain question I tend to treat them the same way to show them how poor it can be when two are trying to discuss one thing. Trust me, I know what Arum is doing here and know that he does plan for a big fight sooner or later anyway and these "easy" fights can be stay active ones for a dangerous one coming up. This is how boxing works anyway though not all people seem to understand it.

 

Comparing Abrahams reign against Pavliks reign is unfair considering the massive gap between title fights and the number of out of weight range fights that Pavlik has had to go through.

I'd say their resumes are both buried in immeasurable feces.

 

That's why they need to fight soon.

 

:good

All the clever back and forth, with rankings, statistics, excuses, and all this other bull**** means nothing.


In the end, everyone knows that Pav has fought **** competition and none of his fans should say a ****in thing about Floyd. Nothing.:bart

 

I don't think you'll find a single dissenter on that. The fact that they need each other combined with the fact that Abraham is openly flirting about fighting at 168 only exacerbates it.

That said I think where things generally break down is when the two camps and their fanbases hype something up as happening (Abraham vs Pavlik was "a lock" for Oct 2008 then Feb 2009) then when you take a step into reality and it hasn't happened yet, both sides try to justify it.

"Abraham wants too much money"

"Pavlik wants more soft touches."

"Fight has to happen in America, Fight can't happen in Germany."

"Pavlik isn't being reasonable."

In other words what we're getting at at this point is two sides full of lies whirling around one truth. The truth being that they both need to fight one another now because at this point there's nothing else out there BUT a clash.

So get it done.

 

Could be a waiting process to make the fight bigger when announced or it could be many things really, we'll get an answer if it's done or not.

 

I'd hope so but Abraham having ZERO HBO experience makes a wait this long seem really strange. My guess is that Arum wants Abraham to take a teeny deal and Abraham wants a lot of concessions that Team Pavlik dooesn't want.

 

At this point I don't really know what they want or what the hell they're doing to be honest. Abraham stated he wants it numerous times and Arum responds with "wait" or "become more popular in America". Recently I heard they accepted to negotiate better if both win their next battle so let's wait and see.