Pavlik vs. Duran at 160 -- Who wins?

If Duran is talented enough to defeat Pavlik he is talented enough to defeat Calzaghe. If you're going to put down Pavlik might as well be honest because we can tear holes in Joe's record with very little effort.

All-time on real athletic ability, talent, and skill they will end up very, very close to each other (along with Ottke and other similar talents). Probably somewhere between 150-200. Fortunately, they have those records or it would be 200-300. They were very good fighters (with well considered matchmaking and fortunate circumstances).

 

Tear into his record all you please- Duran doesn't beat Calzaghe at 168 despite having the far superior resume overall.

 

If Duran is better than Pavlik he is better than Calzaghe. Simple as that. Pavlik is gonna be a SMW very soon. It's not the eight pounds that really matter here, it's the fighter. It might be different if Calzaghe could crack.

 

Joe is just straight up a better fighter then Kelly and will always be.

 

Styles make fights though...though I agree Pavlik will never be on the level of Duran nor should his name even be mentioned in the same sentence..Pavlik is a big 160lb fighter with a long reach...Pavlik wins this fight in A CLOSE FIGHT IMO! ILL RESPECT ANY OPINION AS LONG AS ITS BACKED WITH SOME GOOD FACTS BEHIND IT!:good

 

I agree about Kelly being able to beat Duran:thumbsup

duran is top 3 at 135 based on what..his 12 titile defenses against sub par opposition...look I give duran his due at 135 by saying he is top ten at the weight, but don';t tell me he fought a pernell whitaker, floyd mayweather jr, diego corrales, jose luis castillo, stevie johnston, or shane mosley type fighter during his run at 135:deal it just didin't happen he fought at 135 in a weak era... I said he is top ten at 135, which means I can find ten 135lbers in history who could beat him or give him a tough fight.

and what you leave out is that leaonard avenged his loss, twice not once but twice. leoanrd beat duran the 2nd time when duran was coming off his close victory over barkley..and the duran that beat barkely couldn't win one round against ray leonard:deal

the nuthuggery on thsi site is pathetic when you break dwon duran's career he is top 30 at best. his saving grace is his 12 title defenses at 135 and hios 4 titles in 4 weight classes.

 

No he's not. Marginally better if at all.

 

Based on?

 

Based upon watching them fight and judging their athletic abilities. Joe's talent is not exactly overwhelming. Joe has a great record. Pavlik isn't some major distance away in skill or talent.

 

most duran nut jobs don't:deal

boxrec is facts dip ****:admin I feel a excuse making torrent coming..let me get ready for this ****:

1. duran was a 135lber
2. duran had a stomach ache that's why he lost to ray leoanrd twice
3. duran was smaller then anyone he fought
4. duran partied too much
6. that wasn't the best duran, the best duran is a duran that wins not one that looses:deal



Quote:
ken buchanan only had 5 championship fights:deal dejesus was no better the fact that duran lost to him shows how ovverrated duran is today.

would duran be great if he never won a championship? and you listed his opp without going into what they accomplsihed. please enlighten us as to what they accomplsihed in their careers to be considered great. because we all know ken buchana is not an atg and is a borderline Hofer

are you saying ken buchanan and esteban de jesuses were better than:

1. genaro hernandez
2. diego corrales
3. jose luis castillo

please stop while you're ahead. I got dead to rights:deal


Quote:
are you trying to say ken buchanan and esteban de jesus were better then diego corrales, floyd mayweather jr, jose luis castillo, steveie johnston, and shane mosley...I mean talk about scrapping the bottom of the barrel..you duran fans are funny

here we go boys and girls, the length the duran nuthuggers go to defend his weak 135 reign.

ken buchana 4-1 in championship fights
esteban de jesus 3-3 in championship fights
___________________________________________________________

diego corrales 7-1 in championship fights
jose luis castillo 6-3 in championship fights
genaro hernandez 11-2 in championship fights

do I need to go on:deal


Quote:
if duran couldn't beat robbie simms a d level fighter how is he going to beat a beast like pavlik at 160.

ahh here we go the excuses I pointed out above pop up here..lol was duran ever in shape and focused when he lost a big fight...are you trying to tell me duran was not in hsape or fucsed when he lost to:

leoanrd twice
hearns by brutal ko
hagelr by UD
Benitez UD
de jesus UD
Kirkland laing UD

do I need to go on:yikes

what did robbie simms accomplsih in his career..beating barkely doesn't make you a hofer or an atg. and the duran hagler fight wasn't competitive duran never had hagler in any trouble in the fight and in fact it was an easy victory for hagler as compared to when he fought hearns and leoanrd.

I rank shane mosley, floyd mayweather jr, pernell whitaker, benny leonard, and henry armstrong above duran at 135. beating ken buchanan and de jesus at 135 proves nothing, duran at heart was a coward who could have never stood agianst the 5 fighters I mentioned and won.
Roberto beats the consensus no2 alltime welter and another top 50 alltime welter both near their prime but cant even crack the top 50?

davey moore, cuevas what did they accomplsih at 154.. moore was 12-0 when he fought duran, he has no legacy at 154, and cuevas was on hid last legs when he fought duran, typical cherry pciking by the "hands of stone"

it is very relevant, since you claim he is top ten atg what he did in each weight class has a great deal to do with how he is ranked all-time.

fact is a guy who lost all his big fights and never domianted more than one weight class is not top ten atg.

duran didn't do **** a middle to be compared with kelly pavlik..how many title defenses did duran have at 160 you guessed it zero.. no title reign of any significance to even be compared to pavlik or any middle weight champ with more than one title defence.

pavlik destroys duran easily at 160 :deal

 

Man please....I'm not a big fan of Duran by any means...But when analysts, writers, historians, and fans talk about Duran he is usually in the top 20 AT LEAST...AT LIGHTWEIGHT HE IS TOP 10...Lou Bizzaro is a great win at 135...At the time Bizzaro was undefeated..He lacked power but his boxing skill was very good...He KO'd Bizzaro in 14...De Jesus who was the WBC champ at the time was also a great victory at LW:bbb....Back than the WBC and WBA were the belts to have to be recognized as the world champ!!:happy...De Jesus was also his only loss at LW and he avenged that loss X2:deal..Furthermore Duran went 63-1 at LW I believe..He beat every man he ever stepped into the ring with at LW..:think You want another lesson??:nut It only took Duran a little more than 2 years and 9 fights to get the 147lb belt..AND YES I KNOW HE GOT BEAT X2 AGAINST LEONARD LATER ON...IMA HUGE FAN OF LEONARD BUT IM NOT GONNNA TAKE AWAY DURANS ACCOMPLISHMENT AND WHAT HE ACHEIVED..HE MADE LEONARD FIGHT HIS FIGHT!!!

I DONT WATCH BOXING AND PAY ATTENTION TO JUSS BIG FIGHTERS AND HYPES..I KNOW MY $HIT!!:nono

AND PLEASE NEVER CALL DURAN "OVERRATED" AT LW...THE MAN WENT 63-1 AND BEAT EVERYONE HE EVER STEPPED INTO THE RING WITH AT LW...

THIS IS COMING FROM A HUGE LEONARD FAN AND I DON'T EVEN LIKE ROBERTO ALL THAT MUCH BUT ONLY A HATER WOULD ACT LIKE HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS AREN ****!

 

like i said im not a huge fan of duran and i agree-h2h i like kelly over duran...but your taking alot away from a fighter who is great...there are alotta wholes in ur post when it comes to talking about duran at 135..in the higher weight classes you make good points but at 135 your not giving enough credit...

shane mosley is imo the greatest lw of all time at 32-0 30 kos he was a beast and he tried to fight everyone...a fight between him and duran i'd favor mosley...

Mayweather is my favorite fighter and h2h i'd favor him over roberto..but floyd was 4-0 1 ko at lightweight...castillox2, sosa, and ndou (which most fans dont give floyd credit for even though they should cuz ndou was 31-1 30 kos) do not make floyd mayweather jr greater than duran at 135...once again i favor mayweather over duran at 135 but that is all!

Pernell would make duran look stupid if they fought!! Too defensive but i still think duran is more of an atg though any argument you say is valid!

Henry armstrong is mos def a notch above roberto at anyweight...h2h henry beats him....henry only fought around 20-25 fights at lw (off the top of my head) and i think henry went undfeated at lw though i might be wrong.i still think roberto is a higher atg lightweight!

 

I already said he was top ten at 135 go back and read my posts:deal if you said duran was top 5 at 135 I wouldn't argue but when people start saying he is top ten atg then I take exceptioon to that.

duran is top 20-30 atg for me based on his run at 135 and his 4 titles in 4 weight classes...but he is severly overrated at 147, 154, or 160 where he did not have much of a legacy.

 

all of the fighters I mentioned not only never lost at 135 but dominated their era just like duran did. duran is an atg at 135 I am not taking that away from him but he doesn't rank ahead of mosley, floyd, pernell or armstrong at 135 for me.

they were just better all around fighters and had more heart then duran who is known for quitting when the going gets tough.

 

Ray was not an ATG when Duran beat him the first time. This was the 2nd defense of his welterweight title. Ray won the title in November of 1979 and this was in June of 1980. Later Ray learned the whole game-inside and outside of the ring after Roberto beat him-then he became great and learned to play the outside and inside game. Roberto is an ATG but not in my mind near top 3 ATG. Maybe top 15-20. Ray learned about styles and to fight your fight and not your opponents. He said before that fight that Roberto calling his wife a name made him want to beat Duran at his own game. And he tried and barely lost. After the fight he said, and even when I fought Duran's fight he still could not knock me out. Then Ray comes back and outclasses him.