PBC for sale - Uncle Al selling up?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Glassbrain, May 22, 2019.



  1. Glassbrain

    Glassbrain Active Member Full Member

    1,197
    902
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Apr 9, 2016
    According to rumours, investment company Endeavour (Parent company of UFC) is looking to purchase PBC which is owned by Haymon Sports. There's question marks surrounding what Endeavour is actually buying, whether it's the fighters and their contracts, investing in parent company Haymon sports or looking to buyout Haymon is yet to be known. This would align with previous statements of Dana White, who has previously discussed wanting to break into promoting boxing cards and would be a major statement which could heavily alter the boxing landscape.

    This could be a positive thing for boxing, as Haymon has consistently ring-fenced PBC fighters, this new move may go some ways to breaking down this American boxing cold war. However, the UFC is also a ring-fenced promotion and has achieved huge success with that module, seeing this Endeavour may decide to continue what Haymon has started and emulate this with their own titles/rankings.
     
  2. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    33,483
    4,561
    Sportsbook:
    1,061
    Apr 30, 2006
    PBC isn't owned by Haymon Sports; Haymon Sports operates it. I'd also be curious to see exactly what they'd be buying.

    Technically, it's owned by the bagholding investors over at Waddell & Reed, who didn't realize the portfolio manager, Ryan Caldwell, signed off on funding the $925 milion deal right before leaving the firm to work with Haymon. Caldwell also approved the insane management structure that made it so easy for Al to pay himself: typically, there's a different party in charge of setting the fight budgets (that guy works for the shareholders) and the manager (the guy working to get the fighters paid) because their interests are in direct conflict. The same person should never play both roles because they inevitably pick a side to get paid from. For Al, that was always going to be the management side since the company's equity was funded with other people's money.

    Al could overpay like crazy for his fighters because that just put more money in his pockets (he gets paid a % off their purses, remember), and couldn't care less about the decline in shareholder value because he didn't actually "own" it. And he made sure to buy off the one guy he needed to sign off on such a blatant cash grab transaction.

    Dude didn't graduate from Harvard by accident. I'd almost feel bad for Waddell & Reed investors, but the hedge fund game isn't one for naive mom & pop investors in the first place. Nobody speculating in them is under the impression that things like this don't happen.
     
  3. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,788
    3,329
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Nov 22, 2014
    This. White needs to stick with what he knows, since Haymon plays smarter people than White on a daily basis.
     
  4. Willie Maeket

    Willie Maeket Eat Your Vitamins and Say Your Prayers, BROTHER! Full Member

    11,922
    5,318
    Sportsbook:
    4,827
    Jun 22, 2015
    One thing for sure nobody will be able to duck and cross promotion fights will become the norm because that company is about that money.
    They are the catalyst behind Mayweather vs McGregor happening and making Dana White eat his words on many fights he claimed would not happen just for him to be overruled by his masters.
     
  5. macademics

    macademics Member Full Member

    468
    175
    Sportsbook:
    3,361
    Jan 2, 2012
    Bro how does the PBC model work exactly? How does Haymon pay these fighters - they own their own promotional companies so what is the setup and is he sliding the money under the table or are these guys taking points of venue, gate, merch sold in the areana and catering etc....
     
    Rock0052 likes this.
  6. macademics

    macademics Member Full Member

    468
    175
    Sportsbook:
    3,361
    Jan 2, 2012
    DAZN should put the offer in.
     
  7. Olu G. Rotimi

    Olu G. Rotimi Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,550
    425
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 29, 2007
    PBC, Al Haymon, Showtime, Fox Sports, Mayweather Promotions, TGB promotions and Ringstar Promotions are the A side of boxing.
     
  8. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

    80,846
    11,021
    Sportsbook:
    10,666
    Jan 18, 2010
    What is sold?
    Fighter's contracts? Seems unlikely because they would have a say in that, right?! Otherwise PBC contracts would litterally be slave contracts.
    The overhead name? That shouldn't be worth much.
    Infrastructure? Hardly there due to the nature of boxing as a whole.
    The network contracts? Again, the networks would definitely have a say in that too.
    Hot air? Seems like.
     
    Rock0052 likes this.
  9. Angler Andrew

    Angler Andrew Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,781
    7,454
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 28, 2016
    Usual legal corruption
     
    Rock0052 likes this.
  10. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    33,483
    4,561
    Sportsbook:
    1,061
    Apr 30, 2006
    That part, unfortunately, is beyond me. I'm used to reading SEC filings so a lot of what I got was from that and the lawsuits. The exact setups down deeper in the weeds? I couldn't discern that with any confidence at all as just an outside spectator. Guys like Haymon and Arum keep things notoriously complex, and don't have to report anything since they're privately held.

    To my knowledge, there's never been a publicly traded boxing promotion and I doubt there ever will be for numerous reasons. One of which is that outside investors tend to pry lol.
     
  11. Boxeo Maximo

    Boxeo Maximo Member Full Member

    129
    83
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 22, 2019
    The reason why in a court of law Haymon gets away with any theory for being a non promoter is because the essence for what he achieves is to make more money for the fighter: that IS THE ESSENCE of the Ali Act.

    The Defacto Rule of the Ali Act was to ensure that Promoters didn’t swingle the boxer and exploit a boxer’s fame to better promote a Promotional Company.

    The most ideal Promoter is one who operates 2-3 guys tops. Not Don King or Arum style where it’s a business brand foremost and the boxer is EMPLOYED by them. It may seem contradictory but the Ali Act was established to ideally protect the Star boxer.

    Notice how many fans say “Top Rank” or “Golden Boy” etc in theory violates the Ali Act. It’s a very complicated subject, but the rule is that the Promoter works for the boxer. There’s a lot of red tape in this business and politics because the Promoter can gain a huge financial career exploiting the name of his client to promote future boxers

    So, Al Haymon is simply an advisor that takes a cut as any Promoter normally would, BUT ensures that the ratio always makes Haymon the less deserved. This is why Haymon never violates the Ali Act. He ensures the fighters gets most. Basically a manager’s cut and doing promotion for free under PBC.

    It’s genius. But at the end of the day, doesn’t matter how Haymon has nicely structured his business, it’s still behind the new advent of DAZN whom are a different protocol to sell sports.
     
    Rock0052 likes this.
  12. Angler Andrew

    Angler Andrew Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,781
    7,454
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 28, 2016
    Maybe I should count myself lucky that I couldn't understand any of this lol.I presume your job entails knowing about legal/business?
    You know the minute I read Harvard it made total sense,to think the country and even the world is run by Harvard minds lol?
     
    Rock0052 likes this.
  13. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    33,483
    4,561
    Sportsbook:
    1,061
    Apr 30, 2006
    At one point, it was. Then the burnout kicked in. I like to follow interesting situations like this from time to time, but that's about as close back to it as I'd like to get lol
     
    Angler Andrew likes this.
  14. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    33,483
    4,561
    Sportsbook:
    1,061
    Apr 30, 2006
    I get the feeling what you described above may be the driving reason why Al has his fighters set up their own promotion companies. Just another level of protection in an otherwise gray area.

    And, to Al's credit, he did funnel more money to the fighters than other promoters blowing other people's money did/do. His plan made more money for the fighters and himself...it's just the Waddell & Reed guys who footed the bill for it. You need millions to invest in those kinds of funds, so from that perspective, there's a bit of a Robin Hood aspect to it.
     
    Robney and Boxeo Maximo like this.
  15. Angler Andrew

    Angler Andrew Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,781
    7,454
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 28, 2016
    Lol I don't blame you.in Britain we have a long running programme called Gardeners world and the guy who presents it,Monty Don from his tranquil estate,once worked in the city,made a ton of money but had a massive nervous breakdown and quit.
    He said it's very difficult for an honest person with principles to do that job,thought that was very telling.
    Haymons a weird character.What's all that about when Floyd used to say I'd like to thank Al Haymon and God or something along those lines?
    He's not been good for the sport as I read that he pays his fighters one lump sum which discourages them from fighting more than once a year?Gary Russel jnr is a prime example,wasting his career away with one fight per year.
     
    Rock0052 likes this.

Share This Page