Peak Ali - 1969?

He was great before and after, so I have no doubt he would have been great in that three year span as well. It was almost like watching two fighters. Clay, always moving, up on the balls of his feet, jab, jab, jab, maybe a right after that, or just three more jabs from a moving target. Ali moved, but not so much and not so fast, many more power shots, alot more in-fighting, taking more shots too. I think it's hard to argue that we know what he would have been during that time, but the prospects of it are exciting. I'd put my money on our seeing the best of him; imagine a young Cassius Clay with the power and smarts of Muhummad Ali.

 

Ali peaked against Foley (according to Dundee), the thing is, the three years out of the ring was the best thing to happen to Ali. The hate towards him was such that I doubt he would of survived into 1969 without his break from the sport and change of attitude. Indeed, I suspect he would not be going down as the Sports personality of the 20th century, but as a footnote to Malcolm X, King and Robert Kennedy......

 

According to Dundee Ali was still getting better in 1967. He didn't say Ali peaked against Folley, only that it was his best perfomance to that date. He was filling out, getting stronger and more powerful, without losing any speed. I think that Ali in 1969 might well have been the greatest p4p ever. There's actually a case to make that he was already in 1967.

 

This is something I've brought up time and time again, we never saw the peak Ali, that dormant summer of 67 to the summer of 70 period would have been something to see had he been active. We used to play out various scenerios on how his fights would have unfolded during that period.
He was already scheduled to fight Bonavena a few months after Folley.
He surely would have fought a handful of guys much earlier than he did.
Ellis/Quarry would have fallen circa 68, early 69. Martin, Mathis figure in the mix, maybe an earlier Patterson 2. How about a Peralta defense in Luna Park, Argentina in there? The inevitable Frazier battle may have been around the summer of 69. There is a possiblilty he could have reigned into 72-73 and run into young Foreman at that point.
Lots of possibilities. Lots of what-ifs....

 

I thought he said the best he ever looked was against Williams?I think Williams hit him 3 times or something ridiculous like that

 

I would agree, but Dundee said he was even better against Foley, and I think he is a much, much better judge than me!

 

He looked amazing against Cleveland Williams. I would say that's the best he's looked aswell and I think that was '66/67, I would probably agree with you though and say we never actually saw the best of Ali.

 

The three years would have been his prime imo,but the good old "Land Of the Free" took those away from him,along with his passport.How many other prominent Boxing Champions served in Viet Nam ,or were even inducted?

 

Yeah, I've thought about that. As far as I know no other elite athlete was drafted (but I could be wrong). They even had to re-classify him to make him eligable. Not a proud chapter of modern American history I would say.

 

Dundee said it: "We saw a lot, but we never saw the best Ali."

The enforced layoff simply adds to mystique of Muhammad Ali, but it is based on fact. He was evidently peaking into something unprecedented, sublime, in those last three fights: Williams (Superman in white boxing trunks floating and stinging in that Houston ring!), Terrell (totally eclipsing a bigger, live challenger), Folley (what a classy one-punch knockout!).

Ali would have been the epitome of the warrior/scholar: truly the greatest fighter of all time with the mind and heart of a prophet speaking up and acting for his people.

Though hated for his "radicalism" in simply speaking the truth, I believe eventually society would come around to see him and that period in history more or less as it does now.

And, as an athlete, he was already looking for something uniquely challenging, as defending the title against all available opposition "bum-of-the-month" style was getting a bit old, thus enter the Billy Goat and possible multiple opponents on one night.

He would have broken all the records and probably retired with his health, but that is why I love Ali: he took his lemons and made a marvelous lemonade, never complaining, taking the long way home eventually all the way to Zaire. In an imperfect world, he made it perfect.

 

It was alleged the government made a point of going after him for the draft. because of his outspoken views, deemed a troublemaker; not unlike how they dug up John Lennon's old marijuana conviction in England. They couldn't deport Ali, but they could discredit and defang him. Both these guys had the selflessness and the guts to speak out against the war in Vietnam and other American lies.

I remember a documentary I saw on Ali, can't think of the name, but one scene is still clear in my memory... in the midst of this controversy, of Ali's conversion to Islam, of his changing his name, and of his refusal of the draft, he was at some southern university, and on the steps of a campus building he is met by reporters, onlookers, and a very vocal and chastising group of crew-cutted frat brother types, who were their to take Cassius to task for his stance.

"Don't you love this country? Who do you think you are? What makes you so special?" Ali, surrounded by white, southern, middle class, collegiates was beautiful, so beautiful I'll never do it justice here today, but it was....
"Why would I want to go halfway around the world to kill other, poor, brown people? Those people never did me no harm. Those people never enslaved me. They never treated me like dirt, they never called me ******...You did, you! I'd rather fight you right here right now, you are my enemy, not these poor people over in some place I never even heard of, you..."

It's beautiful when ignorance and hate come face to face to with truth. Not one of them had an argument, I swear they looked in awe of his fluidity, his poeticism. It was the past running face first into the future, and getting stopped in its tracks. And as much as alot of them probably hated him, as many of them who could never see him as their equal because of his color, it was clear to alot of us watching and I suspect to many of the white kids on those university steps too, in the still of that dark night, that this was a superior being. Ali stuck out on those steps as much as if he had dropped in from a parallel universe. How many times has our government created situations that end up turning Americans on Americans? Like walking into a crowded, raucous bar, sucker-punching the meanest looking guy and then crawling out the back door on your hands and knees, while the place erupts in mayhem in your wake.

 

I dont think Ali would have broken ALL records, I belive he would have lost way before the 49-0, about, or be short of it.

Perhaps he would have beating ther 25-0 title defenses. I think that was in Ali's reach.
As for 3 time heavyweight champ, well, I think he can do it I suppose.

Of couse, Ali would never get the 25 first round kos held by Jack Dempsey.
And he failed in his quest to beat Patterson's record.

 

Of course, it's possible. But I can see him racking up another 20 wins before being defeated. He fought pretty frequently throughout his career, so those 20 wins might well have come in the next 5 or 6 years. I have no trouble whatsoever envisioning him going undefeated until at least 1973.

 

The best version of a fighter that trainers swear by are those that are under no pressure going about their business in the gym against over-matched sparring partners and exhibition devices like speed balls and the skipping rope.

The point that should be focused on is that we never saw the best version of Ali against his best opposition.

By the time Ali fought Terrell he was a matured, experienced and rounded fighter and he completely outclassed his worthy rival. It was a bit of an exhibition in itself as was his pasting of the prone Cleveland Williams.

Ali was at his physical peak at that point, of that, Ted Spoon has no doubt. Speed, movement and punch variation was at its peak - he looked less tuned in against Folley, although still impressive.

Had he continued it would of been interesting to see just when his physical gradient of decline started. Some chances may of come earlier Frazier).

An observation: The Frazier of 1971 still gives the best version of Ali, possibly, just as much hell as he did as he did in reality.