Peak Ali - 1969?

Two ways to look at it.

1 ) If Ali was not suspended from 1967-1970 he would likley have less left for the Foreman fight, Lyle fight, Shavers fight, etc... The comeback made Ali hungry again.

2 ) Ali lost three of his best years, and would have pasted the best of the time. The time Ali took off took away some of the bounce in his legs.

I tend to think Ali's legacy is better with the comeback.

For my money, Ali was at his best in the first Liston fight.

 

I think he carried Folley a bit ,I beleive he could have finished it earlier if he had gone to work .I also beleive if Ali had still been Clay and a Protestant ,Catholic ,or whatever he would not have been called up.

 

I think he would physically be in a good state for those fights, but I can well see him taking an unnecessary loss in the early 70's because of a lapse in concentration due to overconficence. That loss would be avenged though. I'm pretty sure he would have dominated until the later part of the 70's, probably be dethroned by Holmes at some point.

In that case his career would be more similar to Louis's. I can see Ali possibly racking up more defenses and more straight victories, but not with too much of a difference. It would too a large part come down to whose era was seen as the more competitive. Today that's a given, but Frazier, Foreman and co would in this case be seen merely as very good contenders, not great champions. Liston's legacy would be unchanged, but there's always been something controversial with Ali's victories over Liston and some would refuse to take them at face value.

I would say, though, looking at films of Ali at his absolute peak (ca 1967-1970) would make it hard to claim that Louis was the greater of the two.

 

Yes, Ali did not really have to go through the gears to rid of Folley, who was fighting a special fighter during his poorer years.

It's a possibility that had Muhammad made his stance on religion and war more understated that the reverberations would not have been so severe, and his career may of taken on a different route.

Still, Ted Spoon believes the best version of Ali existed, and we got to see him fight many times during 1966 and 67'.

 

Not ALL records, as I said, he failed to beat Patterson's record(At the time) and was no WERE close to Dempsey's 25 first round kos.

Than we have the all time ko King in Archie Moore. Of couse I not going into the lower weights. Thsos guys pull off impossible feats lol.

 

The King of Rock and Roll was called up. And he was by image a Catholic, loved his mom, ete. Ali would have been called up either way imo.

 

But no other elite athletes were, were they?

 

If Dundee thinks he was still improving I believe him. Furthermore, most boxers and other athletes reach their peak somewhere between 25 and 20. Ali seemed to be developing normally enough, so I would think the same would be true with him.

 

I'd always heard, have to admit I don't know to what point this would have been the general consensus by those in the know, that in particular, a HW's prime is the late-twenties.

 

I'd always heard, have to admit I don't know to what point this would have been the general consensus by those in the know, that in particular, a HW's prime is the late-twenties. I'm sure this might vary a bit from heavy to heavy but we're talking generally.

 

Just a few singers and actors, that I know of. And why does it have to be level at just athletes?? I mean these guys had just as much fame as Ali did.

 

Let's remember that before he was set to be drafted Ali was offered a position in the National Guard by the Illinois Governor (I believe it was), which he speaks about in 'My Own Story', and that would have been the same position that hundreds of other professional athletes in the states had through the Vietnam War, such as Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Bill Bradley, etc., etc., etc.

Also, when Ali was first called to take an army physical he was still Cassius Clay and wasn't exactly all that famous, as that happened at least a year before he defeated Liston for the title. Don't recall the exact date offhand, but it was in late 1962 or very early in 1963 at the latest.

 

That's fair enough, but there is always room for improvement and Dundee's position as Ali's coach was made to boost his mans legacy.

Ali, a specifically quick fighter, was at the apex of his physical output when he made his first exit. The world was robbed of a longer first title reign, but the brilliance vs. Williams, exhibition stuff, would not of been topped as it was the right opponent at the right time to amplify Ali's ability.

 

True ,and wasnt he reclassified after he became a Muslim?

 

Who were they and were they drafted to the war in Vietnam?