Peak Cleveland Williams v Champ Jersey Joe Walcott

I never made excuses for Williams losing. I said if you're going to make excuses for Walcott losing to bums you also have to excuses Williams for losing to bums. Either both Williams and Walcott get excuses or neither guy gets excuses. That's all I have to say on the matter.

 

Nope, you are the one who is always making excuses for Williams like your buddy Swag.
I do not think he would ever beat Cooney or Walcott and that is a fact.
He did not beat anyone to make his record better than this guys.
Double standards are used by you not by me.

 

I'm done arguing with you. You're a clown full of double standards and contradictions. Worst poster on this board I've ever seen. One only needs to look at your post stating that Schmeling threw his 2nd fight against Louis.

If it weren't for the comedy you provide, I'd petition for a permaban.

 

I was already done with him, but this is the final nail in the coffin. If Schmeling was going to throw the fight, why did he stand there helplessly getting hit by flush bombs against the ropes? That was arguably the most 1 sided ass whooping in boxing history. If I recall correctly, Louis even fractured some.of his bones or something.

This guy's an idiot.

 

Say the man who is just excusemaker for 3 years on this forum.
Double standards only for your heroes Liston and Williams not for guys like Frazier or Lyle.
And Schmelling threw the fight is having chance to be true since how the hell can he go 12 rounds and be stopped in 1st round not even wanting to fight?

 

Because he threw the fight like Liston did against Ali in their second fight only difference is that Schmelling had Nazis instead mob watching him.
If Schmelling was really fighting how about that he fought 12 rounds and rematch lasted just one round?
And he did not gave Louis any fight like he was ready to lose.

 

By the time he fought Chuvalo, Williams was “shot”.

Chuvalo, while past prime, was not “shot”.

Chuvalo’s later rematch vs Ali, which was closer than their first fight, also proves this.

Chuvalo never boxed as well as Williams did at Williams best nor was Chuvalo ever as fast as Williams at Williams’ best - therefore a guy like Cleveland stands to lose more due to age/injury than a fighter like Chuvalo.

Referencing Ali vs Chuvalo II again - a perfect example of the faster more skilled fighter (Ali) losing more than Chuvalo could ever hope to lose - therefore a much closer fight than their first. Ali was that much less of his orig self but he wasn’t “shot” like 38 yo Williams was.

Vs Chuvalo, the most notable deficiency in Cleve’s game was his sporadic output due to heavily impaired stamina. When Williams’ actually punched, he did heavy damage and sent Chuvalo back on his heels on several occasions during their fight. Otherwise, Williams was basically outworked.

It’s an incredible reach to suggest that Williams gun shot wound didn’t heavily impact on him physically and his boxing career by association.

Williams weight dropped to 155 lbs.

Surgery notwithstanding, the bullet remained lodged in his right hip - there was severe damage done to his colon and right kidney. We all know in later life, as a consequence, Williams had to have dialysis treatment multiple times per week.

I also believe that during the surgery, an artery? was removed from Williams’ left leg thigh?) and used elsewhere on Williams’ body.

Post gun shot wound, I think you can see the left leg perhaps appearing a bit withered as compared to the right.

The difference between 59/60 Williams vs Liston as compared to 66 Williams vs Ali is obvious and significant - and that difference was not solely based in normal age wear/tear or the uniquely superior skills of Ali overcoming the same qualities upheld by the younger, pre gun shot wound Williams.

How does the stabbing of Ron Lyle compare exactly to Williams’ obviously permanent and likely worsening disrepair after his injuries?

 

In 1965, while in prison, Lyle nearly died on the operating table after being stabbed by an inmate, was saved by a Dr. Townsee. Lyle had 36 blood transfusions and survived.[url][3][/url] Afterwards, he was put into solitary confinement for 90 days and, as he was alone and had nothing to do, he began doing push-ups, sit-ups, squats, and other exercises. From then on, he trained regularly
Lyle died at the age of 70, on Saturday November 26, 2011 from complications from a sudden stomach ailment.

 

Yes, but what were the potentially permanent injuries, likely to worsen and impact Lyle over the following years - the crux of my question?

 

Lyle died of them so yeah.
Cleveland was hit by car while Lyle died because his wounds so yeah, permanent injuries of Ron were bigger.

 

Oh gee.

Williams was hit by a car when returning from/going for dialysis treatment - curious that you would OMIT that.

You stated “sudden” stomach ailment.

So not a previously identified, progressive and worsening condition?

So, what were Lyle’s permanent injuries and how were they linked back to the stabbing?

Also, I assume you know how old Lyle was when he was stabbed. Please illuminate.

Of course, we know Williams was over 30 yo when he was shot and common sense dictates that 1) surviving serious injury and 2) recovering completely or mostly unscathed from same is more likely for a younger than older person.

 

For someone that's been a member for less than a month you sure know a lot about forum history

 

cough cough serbian loudmouth.

 

Because I was watching threads but I did not have facebook so I can make a profile.
I even watch threads from 2009/2010.