Peak Lewis vs 70's version of Ali

I think that's a convenient excuse by Ali fans to live with the fact that Frazier beat him. Ali had two fight against top ranked contenders and stopped both faster than they ever had been and would have been! He had prepared very well for this fight and had been doing exhibitions when he was exiled from boxing as well.

More than half a year of sparring, training including stopping two highly ranked contenders does not prepare him, yet after Frazier beat him, he magically got better? Ali looked superb the first time against Quarry as well and stopped him much faster than in the rematch, but of course Ali was better in the rematch because that was after Frazier beat him!

 

I knew Lewis was grossly overrated here but I'm surprised to see so many picking him to beat THE BEST of 70s Ali.

I'd be pissing into the wind if I were to really try mounting any sort of critique though. Lewis shits gold bullion here on ESB.

 

Lewis. Going from a fighting weight of around 225 to 250+ fully functional weight after maturity surely tells a tale.

"Supplements" and "STEROIDS" are two entirely different kettle of fish. Pre exile Ali=210.5 lbs. Post exile=215. Fat, fighting Ali=220. Steroids, NO WAY. Supplements, maybe. Natural maturity, in all probability.

 

I have to agree. Although I feel that the layoff may have hurt Ali some, I think he was generally in ideal shape for the fight of the century, and certainly better than he would be in much of the latter part of the 1970's.

Unlike other champions who returned from a long period of inactivity, Ali stayed in shape for the duration that he was out of the ring with full intention of returning, whereas so many champions leave thinking they are retiring for life. Ali was also only 28-29 years old when he returned, and not in his mid to late 30's such as the case with Jeffries, Holmes, Louis, etc. when they returned. Ali fought two tunups against two highly qualified top raters in Quarry and Bonavena, one of which gave him a 15 round workout. Although I think a 1967 Ali was a tad better, I still don't see how Muhammad could have been anymore prepared to take on the 70's.

 

Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would SUSPECT that Lewis used steroids.
Strong suspicion would seem reasonable too.

The fair-minded among us would accept that he POSSIBLY did NOT use, but that's about it.

In an era where steroids are almost certainly used by several elite fighters, in an age where the heavyweights all seemed to pack on 20 or so pounds above what their counterparts a decade early had weighed, only an idiot wouldn't suspect the XXXL-size champion, the most powerful and strongest guy out there !

 

In Alis day there were no decent supplements, maybe ginseng at best (which is decent). I havent heard Ali took supplements, they certainly didnt improve his performance

Lewis does have somewhat of a steroid look, especially as his career progressed

 

I think it's reasonable to believe that Ali was not as good as he could have been if not for three year lay off.

 

1970-75 would be Ali by UD. 1976-77 would be a pick em' fight. After 77' it would be Lewis but not by knockout though.

 

Probably, but that's not my point. I don't doubt that the FOTC Ali was a lesser fighter than he was against Terrel. All i'm saying is that i think Ali was as good as he ever was against Frazier I, if we're only looking at the 70's.

 

Then I agree. :good

 

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Bokaj, you are on the right track up to a point. Steroids does not necessarily give you the overly "buffed" and "ripped" look unless you work for it. Meaning, you have to pay attention to the kind of diet, exercise and of course drugs used, to get that look. Look at weightlifters and powerlifters. They are on the extreme high end of steroid use (make that abuse). Yet, as a group, they are not particularly "buffed" or "ripped". Now look at bodybuilders, another group who really over indulges. They are "buffed" and "ripped", aren't they? It is the difference in training, diet and type of drugs used.

Evander Holyfield having that look, in all probability, came from the fact that he was physically trained by Lee Haney and his assistant for a long time. In case you are wondering who Lee haney was, he was Mr. Olympia (the highest pro award in bodybuilding) for eight (if I recall correctly) straight years, breaking the record of none else than Arnold Schwarzenegger himself.

 

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I think the "he wanted to quit" stories are ridiculous and speculative. Do you think there's anyone on this planet after being exhausted and in extreme heat would "want" to continue against Frazier? Bottomline is he did and that's all that matters. Same with him supposedly wanting to quit against Liston.

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Ali was starting to look winded? He was dancing around and couldn't miss Quarry with his jab. The fact that Jerry was messed up so bad after only 3 rounds should tell you something. Ali stopped a better version of Quarry 4 rounds faster than he did later and that's a fact. "He looked winded" is mere speculation from your side and a wild one at that, as Ali never in his entire career was winded after 3 rounds.