Peak Lewis vs 70's version of Ali

Dont be silly, JT.
I'm not "smearing" anyone. I'm just stating my opinion that the elite heavyweights of the last 10-20 years should be suspected of drug use.

All those guys running 100 metres in 9.9 seconds are suspects too.

What's your problem with it being stated that the world's best heavyweights should be suspected of steroid use ?

Professional elite athletes take some chemicals nowadays. It would be naive to think otherwise.

I dont care whether Lewis in particular took the drugs or not. But I'm not gonna be so stupid as to pretend a sudden influx in the 1990s of 230-250 pound heavyweights with ripped physiques, huge arms and bulging deltoids has nothing to do with steroids because fighter X and fighter Y never "got caught".

I dont mind saying I think heavyweight boxers take steroids. Shannon Briggs is on steroids, I dont give a **** what anyone says about that being a "smear". **** that, he's juicing. So sue me.

Others I SUSPECT used drugs are Golota, Rahman, Lewis, McCall, Tua, Grant, the Klitschkos (Vitali being an admitted user), Roy Jones Jr. (caught), late-career Tyson (he's a small guy surrounded by 'roid behemoths, he SHOULD be taking something), Seldon, and lots of others.

I suspect many elite Olympic weighlifters, gymnasts, baseballers, basketballers, swimmers, cyclist, runners and field athletes of taking PEDs too.

I SUSPECT the girl at the bar with mini-skirt and fishnets and a ton of make-up is not a virgin.

I SUSPECT the smelly guy on the park bench with a can of super-strength lager is unemployed.

I SUSPECT the 248 pound muscular heavyweight champion with the monstrous strength and power takes performance-enhancing drugs.

 

What, you mean Primo Carnera and Jess Willard? What about Jeffries, a behemoth when most heavyweights were around 180 pounds. Surely, as he's bigger than the rest, he must have taken steroids.

 

By the way, one typical trademark of a juicer is ridiculously large traps (the muscle area between the shoulders and the neck, on the back).

Holyfield, Morrison and Jones, all caught on steroids, are no exception to that:

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Now compare that with Lewis' traps:

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Big difference.

 

Well you always go to serious lengths trying to convince us Tyson and Lewis were both on roids and it smacks of trying to bracket them with Holyfield to me. Just the way i see it.

 

They didn't have steroids and HGH, etc. at the time, so we can be sure those guys weren't using.

But are you suggesting I should then assume that a whole crop of huge heavyweights of recent years are all clean of those growth/strength drugs simply because Primo Carnera was bigger ?

I believe lots of modern heavyweights use PEDs for strength, size and power.

The elite guys are, by definition, the ones who are generally best prepared, take the game most serious, dedicate their lives to being the best they can be. Therefore, I suspect many of them use the drugs.
It's professionalism.

I dont see why this common-sense and realistic view of the world upsets so many people here.

I think the "moral panic" and anti-drug hysteria indoctrination that's been propogated for decades against the use of drugs in sport has made some of you equate suspiscion of athletes with accusing them of being EVIL CHEATS.
I dont see it like that at all. The drugs are part of modern professional sports. ****, they're even part of everyday life for many casual amateurs and average weight trainers. To suspect the suped-up athletes of today of drug use is common-sense. That's all.

 

You always accuse me of dishonesty and having these "hidden agendas".

The more I try to explain and elaborate my position, to try to make a connection and build some common understanding, the more you seem to close your ears and write me off as lunatic fringe.

I never tried to convince you of anything. Frankly, I think anyone who's living in the 21st century understands and accepts my general point about drug use in sport.

You really have nothing to offer on the subject whatsoever apart from some puerile accusations of me being engaged in some General Forum-esque partisan war, involving my "favourite" and "non-favourite" fighters.

 

ChrisPontius,
I know guys that don't juice that have big traps. I know guys that do juice that don't have big traps.

It's down to genetics and methods of training.

If you juice, depending on how you train, you can expect all your muscle groups to enlarge, not your traps moreso than any other.

 

Never did go for smoke and mirrors. The bottom line is you have jack **** for proof and go to elaborate lengths trying to justify your position. I'd hate to have the sinister look and be on trial for murder with you on the jury!

:dead

 

For whatever reason, some people here want us to all bow down and say Lennox Lewis is above suspicion. But he's NOT above suspicion. In fact, as an elite professional fiercely dedicated to his profession, he should be a MAIN SUSPECT. That's common sense.
That's about all I've tried to say here, and it really shouldn't be a controversial point amongst intelligent and open-minded adults.

 

Pretty laffable bracketing anyone not agreeing with you to be close minded and dumb Sonny. The bottom line is his career is done and dusted and he never had any problems whatsoever concerning steroids, unlike Holyfield. It's always going to be mere speculation and that's all she wrote.

 

I wouldn't convict a man on suspicion, but am I then prohibited from SUSPECTING ?
The man in court is already a suspect.

I dont get your point at all. You dont need PROOF to SUSPECT something.

This isn't a court of law. "I think he Might have" isn't an accusation. These are statements of what I believe.

You've yet to explain why I shouldn't believe what I believe. Obviously it is my beliefs that you have a problem with. I share my thoughts and you accuse me of going to "elaborate lengths blah blah blah". I'm just saying I think a lot of elite professional athletes take drugs. Why dont you tell me what YOU believe on the subject ?

You seem to be saying that SUSPICION is not allowed. Does it apply to Shannon Briggs as well ? I already over-stepped the mark and flat-out accused him. Maybe I was out-of-order in regards to that. I take that back. I should have said I VERY STRONGLY SUSPECT Briggs took 'roids.

 

Well, you're an idiot straight off the bat because you seem to think I should have PROOF to SUSPECT.
You're also a bit cowardly because you attack my beliefs without having exposed any of your own for scrutiny.

I say I believe many elite professional athletes take the drugs. All you say is "you cant say that".

Yes, but that "mere speculation" really seems to get your goat.
It seems that "merely speculating" on this particularly subject is almost a crime to some here and is inevitably to be dismissed as some lunatic "agenda-driven" campaign.

 

My entire point is simply this (tho you've gone on and on around it) - you place great importance on trying to bracket Tyson and Lewis with your boy Holyfield. When it comes to Tyson and Lewis you're always looking for cunning little ways to derail them.

Deny it all you like, it's there plain Jane to see over a long period of time. Don't stop tho, i love it. It takes all opinions and beliefs to form a consensus, from the haters to the huggers. Somewhere in between the the polar lengths of amusement we find plenty of meat and insight.
I don't need to post 700 words and debate endlessly to make my point. It's done. I called you on bull****, you defended and denied and it's on to the next thread for me. I'm just as fast to praise a fine post from you, as i have plenty of times too. Feel free to address anything i post in a critical way too, BTW. You've certainly had your share of chops at me over Dempsey, but all's fair and it's water off a ducks back at the end of the day.

:good