Peak Marciano would beat Zaire Ali.

Two of my favorite fighters, couldn't be less similar tactically, but their mindsets were the same: to find a way to win at any cost. That might sound like an oversimplification; as in, what fighters don't try to find a way to win? But what makes these guys so alike in my mind is their will, both had bulldog determination intensified by their superior minds. You can watch Joe Frazier's fights and see a heart that had no bounds, but the smarter the fighter the potentially more intense their desire to win.

In Zaire Ali put on one of the most thoughtful, willful performances you will find, and Foreman learned the lesson of his career, one that would teach him to use his brains not just his brawn in that ring, but Marciano is a different fighter altogether than George, and Ali, the chameleon, would have fought an altogether different fight that night, if he were in there with the Rock.

I don't see him laying on the ropes; the rope-a-dope against Marciano? a guy who was deceptively elusive on his way in, who punched sharper than Foreman, especially then, and smelled the scent of blood on a man and kept his cool when it was closing time? No, Ali would have moved a lot more, angles all night, as long as he had the steam. The Rock never faced a 'boxer' like Ali.

But the Rock was so much more mentally tough than Foreman, Frazier and the guys Ali faced that this, this imaginary match up is one of the ones most fantasized about. One thing to take into consideration is the fact that Ali was already hitting harder in Zaire, and he may have given the Rock alot to think about on his way in, and short arm Rocky may have had a problem. I don't know, I'll say Ali would have trained differently if he were to face Marciano instead of Foreman that night. He'd know he'd have to move a lot more and would need his stamina. If he can move, keep moving, by all means and for God's sake keep moving, I'll take him. I like his chances. Because though I believe their mental abilities were equal, the physical gifts Ali was blessed with could tell the tale.

 

I think you make it a bit black and white here. Yes, Ali couldn't dance constantsly for 15 rounds like he did in hte 60's. But by coasting a couple of rounds and being smart with his clinching he could still keep up good movement for large parts of fights. When in good shape he showed this.

Against Foreman every posible factor was against him moving much. It was hot and humid, the canvas was slow and the ring was small. On top of this Foreman had been expertly drilled in cutting the ring off, something he was well suited to do by using his long, massive arms to prevent Ali from going sideways.

Under normal conditions I think he definitely had enough left to do what a close to 40 years old Walcott came quite close to doing. Had it been a peak Marciano in the ring with Ali that night in Zaire it would have been very interesting, though. Then I would give Marciano a much better chance. But of course, a worse version of Ali came out on top in a similar battle of attrition with Frazier...

 

Yeah, the only thing though, Marciano certainly wasn't as non-stop as a Joe Frazier, right? Muhammad might have a little more time to adjust and adapt. Somehow I see Muhummad's underated right hand playing a big role in this. I can see him stepping right and coming down on Rock's chin, as the Rock tries to come in lower and lower to avoid it.

An edit; sorry my lap-top is floating on me today...

 

I would only add that pressure can work the other way too, and Ali was a fighter who knew how to turn a man's pressure against him. The Rock we can see it in our mind's eye would be comin', always comin', but not as blindly or thoughtlessly as Frazier tended too, a natural comparison to Marciano's style and I don't know that Marciano had the athleticism of Joe Frazier. But the Rock was paper thin and crouched, mindful and intent, what a fight.

 

That's funny! I didn't even see it. It's early in L.A., and I had at least one too may Gin and Tonics last night.

 

That's funny! I didn't even notice it. It's early in L.A., and I had one too many Gin and Tonics last night.

See? God, I have to get better with these high tech things, dinosaur that I am.

 

Barring cuts which really never hindered Marciano...I think Marciano had the perfect 15 rd style to wear Ali down in the 10-15th rds and win...No matter what version...these guys could fight 5 fights and they could all be wars,athough not too many fighters that fought Marciano2 times were ever the same. Marciano however would present a more durable and two fisted dangerous foe than Smokin Joe and he would be a real rythym breaker for Ali

 

I'm not so sure about that. The Charles fights were not very close, especially the rematch and Walcott fought one of his best fights that night, he was nearly flawless. People often seem to forget that Marciano was blinded for the middle rounds of the fight. Charles and Walcott were also better technically than Ali. Ali relied on his reflexes and speed often which were diminishing by Zaire, even well before that many say.

And the Chuvalo fight was brought up and compared to what a Marciano fight would look like. Chuvalo gave Ali a very hard time and didn't win many of the rounds, but Ali was given a whole lot of work to do. Marciano would be much worse for him.

 

well into 30s? charles was 32, hardly "well into 30s". marciano was also in his thirties at this point too.


I think marciano would gaive zaire ali a bad beating. if he tried the rope a dope with marciano, marciano would batter him all night long for 15 and not get tired.

 

Marciano would pummel him, I think, unless he moves.