2nd Post and still trying not to get my head cut off but... I've been reading so many of the threads on PEDs and Roids and Manny and Shane and Toney and RJJ... but the way I see it - and in the words of The Verve - "The Drugs Don't Work" when it comes to affecting/enhancing pure honest-to-goodness boxing skills. I'm not saying that being skillful + taking drugs is ok, because clearly it's not. I'm also not saying that drugs don't improve power, resistance, stamina. I've seen it myself, and they do. But... I stumbled across this the other day and it got me thinking... [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IpJDmGrH8k[/ame] ... the accused (RJJ, Toney, Sugar Shane) were/are all "world class" when it comes to boxing skills and ring mastery. PEDs and Roids didn't/wouldn't make any difference to their core qualities aqs fighters. Are there any instances that we know of where a fighter of limited skill actually improved his boxing prowess by the taking of PEDs/Roids? I genuinely can't think of one. Once again, I'm not saying it's ok. But when we cack on these guys for being juicers, should we only cack on them for being cheats? Does their cheating denigrate their skills in any way? Let the flaming commence... :yikes Cheerio, Gibbsy.