People don't generally believe Ward could beat a prime Calzaghe do they?

Fixed.:good

 

Of course they dont generally believe it Hans.
This thread is still going strong due to butt hurt haters who cant stand that Calzaghe beat their heros


21 SMW title defences WBO IBF WBC WBA SMW titles,
- Kessler (WBC WBA undefeated champ) undefeated and not suffering double vision
- Lacy (IBF undefeated champ) Americas next big thing and mini Tyson
- Eubank one of the greatest SMWs ever and beaten at the same age as Kessler when Ward beat him
- Mitchell 2 time WBA SMW champ and only ever beaten clearly at SMW by Calzaghe, many felt Mitchell had beaten Ottke
- Reid who many felt beat Ottke, beat undefeated Magee who became WBA champ
- Woodhall who fought Beyer to a close decision, beat future WBC SMW champ Catley
- Veit (WBO int champ 45-1 only beaten by Calzaghe) who was only beaten by world champs or fighters who became and has a win over undefeated 27-0 Braehmer (current LHW title holder)
- Brewer former SMW champ
- Bika who nearly beat Ward years later
- Starie who beat undefeated future LHW champ Woods
- Sheika when top 10 and coming off a win over G Johnson
- Mkertchyan who became European SMW champ beating 26-0 world rated Chanet

Thats going to take some beating

and thats not even all of it


- Kessler already beaten by Calzaghe
- Froch who has only won vacant titles, one being one Calzaghe threw away, the other being one a Calzaghe victim threw away and never beaten a top SMW
- Bika beaten clearer by Calzaghe
- Abraham coming off 2 clear S6 losses and done nothing at SMW
- Green beaten by old SMW journeyman Johnson, who when prime lost to Sheika in a box off to face Calzaghe
- Dawson who has no SMW pedigree
- Rodriguez whos best SMW win is?

Anyone who really thinks Wards on par and close to bettering Calzaghe is either very bias or plain stupid.

 

I think it would be an interesting fight... But Calzaghe would just be too much for him IMO.

 

AnotherFan,

He didn't promise anything, and he also didn't say he'd never fight him.

The word 'duck' gets thrown about all over the place.

Andre could do what he wanted. It was his prerogative.

Why have you reeled of ridiculous an*logies?

Andre had a fractured hand, and he was more than happy to sit back at the time that Carl fought Bute.

Then afterwards he signed to fight a fighter that appeared to be much tougher than Bute.

:good

Again, you're talking absolute nonsense.

Why the sarcasm?

A duck is when a fighter is afraid to fight someone, due to a fear of losing.

Please answer my question.

Why would a guy who was scared of Bute, go out and fight Chad Dawson?

It's illogical.

Dawson was also a southpaw.

He was just as tall.

He had a bigger reach.

He had a better resume.

A man who was truly scared of an unproven Lucian Bute, would not have then gone out and signed to fight Chad Dawson, who'd beaten Tarver and Hopkins etc.

It wouldn't have made sense.

 

Here is what Andre Ward said about fighting Lucian Bute:

''As far as fighting him ... I would love that. I would truly love that. I think that, god willing, I'm able to come out of this thing on top and win the the Super Six, I think that's the only fight that makes sense. I think that fight has to be made.''

There's no questionmark here. Ward said that the winner of Super Six should unify the belts by fighting Bute. What's up with Bute go fighting the winners leftovers instead? It's nonsencical.

It's very reasonable to say that Ward ducked Bute.

We're all free to do what we want. Ward used this freedom to avoid fighting Bute.

Why are they ridiculous? The Super Six Tournament had created an intense interest for the super middleweight division, at least within the boxing community. A unification fight between Ward and Bute was the fight to be made, but Ward instead acted all funny.

It's already been cleaered up that the hand was not the issue. They could have planned for the fight taking place during late spring, while Wards hand healed. When Ward was asked about fighting Bute, he does not mention the injury as far as I can see. Instead he harpes on about how Bute should fight one or two of Wards leftovers.

Ward feeling comfortable with avoiding fighting Bute is not an argument for why it's justified.

Yes.

My posts here on ESB is the essense of making sense.

I'm not beeing sarcastic. Ward vs Bute would have been a huge fight and, using Wards own words, the only fight that made sense. Fans wants the challenger to fight the number one, not the number ones victims.

It's not okay to duck fighters because of laziness. Imagine what that would do to the sport. How can it be wrong to avoid a fighter due to fear, but alright because you simply feel like it?

I've never claimed that Wards course of action makes any sense.

 

Not fighting because you don't feel fully motivated and not fighting because of fear are two totally different things.

I am not claiming Ward did either or, just saying they are entirely different.

 

They are different things but not totally different. The one thing they have in common is the not fighting-theme. To make a comparasion: a green duck is different from a black-grey duck. Still a duck, though.

From the horses mouth:

"So I don't have to go to Lucian Bute right now," Ward said. "We're going to sit back and I'm going to rest and we'll see what's next."

Sounds to me like he didn't go after Bute because he couldn't be ****d. What does it sound like to you?

 

I have a hard time Ward believing Ward was afraid of Bute, but you could be right.

 

Before we go any further, what do you class as a duck?

Again, in my opinion, a duck, is not ever wanting to fight a certain guy, because of a fear of losing to them.

That's my opinion.

So anybody saying that Andre ducked Bute, is saying to me, that in their opinion, Andre would never have fought him, because he was afraid of him.

Andre said that the winner of The Super Six, should fight Bute.

But afterwards, he was happy to take a break, saying that he didn't want to fight him at that point, and he was happy to let the fight build up.

He was happy to take some time out, and let Carl fight him.

That does not mean that he never had any intentions of one day fighting him.

There's not enough evidence to be claiming it as a duck.

All you've got, is that he didn't want to fight him at the specific moment in time that Carl did.

That's all you have.

Again, after Carl had destroyed Bute, Andre went and fought Dawson.

No guy who ducked Bute out of fear of losing to him, would then go out and fight Dawson.

Dawson appeared to be BETTER than Bute.

So it would have been illogical.

 

AnotherFan,

It sounds to me like he was content to take a break, to see what would unfold between Carl and Bute.

That was his prerogative.

It doesn't mean that he was scared of fighting him.

It also doesn't mean that he wouldn't have fought him in the future.

Again, he fought Dawson after.

Why would he have done that?

 

Me too.

He was afraid to fight Bute, but he was happy to fight Chad?

It doesn't make sense.

Both were southpaws, but had skills, but Chad was bigger overall, and he had a better record.

 

I have another interpretation of the word. A duck is not to fight your man while you come up with poor excuses, so what Andre Ward did was a textbook duck. Because after Super Six Ward was the number one guy at SMW and Lucian Bute was the best opponent he had yet to do a number on.

Sometimes there are valid reasons to why a fight don't get made. I understand why Wladimir Klitschko doesn't want to pound in the head of his elder brother Vitali, and I also get why Roy Jones Jr didn't stay at HW and fought Lennox Lewis.

But Ward had no valid reasons. His talk about Bute having to fight one or two of his leftovers makes no sense.

There was no need to build the fight. Bute was a title holder who had looked good taking out average opposition for a while. Ward walking out of a big unification fight because he didn't felt into it right then is not a normal behaviour for a professional boxer :huh

Aren't you a bit too sure about what goes on in the head of Ward? If anything, Ward seems to do a lot of calculation. His style in itself is among the most calculative I've seen in the sport, on level with Bernard Hopkins and Wladimir Klitschko. Ward is defenitly scared of getting robbed if he fights away from his backyard, and he wasn't keen on moving up to LHW to face Chad Dawson at his best. Maybe he wanted Bute to fight some tougher guys, in order to scrutinize him for weaknesses. Remember, Ward didn't just say "Go fight Carl Froch". He actually said fight one or two A-level guys. Perhaps he later regretted that he had missed out on a great chance to boost his career. That might have motivated him to go after Dawson straight away.

If you want my honest guess about Ward, I think he struggled with the insight that he wasn't into boxing no more. It was evident after Super Six that he wasn't in a rush to get back into the ring. He got himself together to take out Dawson, but after that his motivation went again. Fighting mandatories? Naw, no point. Fighting Adlonis Stevenson? Naw, he aint worthy. And so on.

 

I've speculated a bit in my post above, but I can go on. Maybe he made another an.alyze of Bute and Dawson than you and me, maybe it was a change of career tactics, or maybe his manager started to bust his ba.lls.

I don't understand your talk about prerogative at all :huh Why was it his pregorative to skip out on a promised unification fight with Bute?

 

Ward and Andre Dirrel but mostly Ward were thee biggest disappointments after the Super Six. Froch who lost to Ward and arguably to Dirrel goes on to have big fights and rule the division after what happened in the Super Six seriously WTF !!!

 

Yes another biased or misleading post by you

"21 SMW title defences WBO IBF WBC WBA SMW titles" my ass:rofl

How many of them were only WBO defenses?