People don't generally believe Ward could beat a prime Calzaghe do they?

You wrote Commonwealth you liar. Indicating when I wrote Froch was a British champ, that it was a lie.
Now you are backpeddling and looking silly again and I am once again showing how irrelevant a poster you are and wasting time. Thats the last one for a while. Irrelevant fool

 

he is comparing resume.

wrong, and trying to tell others they are wrong when you are so badly wrong yourself.

you find you have no answer and so you are forced to tell lies and then run away form pages and pages and comeback with some new topic when its forgotten. YES I NOTICED.

 

Will have to run for a bit. New year celebrations soon to start. Will return and Happy New year

 

Please explain how he ducked Dirrell ? And is now ?
Jcc jr. what division does he even fight in ?

Is he super middle cruiser ?


And as far as Joe and Andre's common opponent well in both the Bika fights I didn't see any clinics both fights were ugly.

With that Ward comment reagrding Kesler sounds pretty bias how is it Ward's fault Kessler cant fight on the inside ? I saw alot of clean punches landed more than the head butts. Unfortunatly for Ward is inactivity is hurtting him right now but he fought everyone there was to fight if he manages to get in the ring soon im sure most of the fights get made unless he ends up moving up. Too much timr being wasted with him right now.

 

We've discussed Bute to death.

I think they'd have ended up fighting, had Froch not crushed him. That's my honest opinion.

But again, he couldn't help the fact that when he fought Froch and Kessler, they'd already been beaten.

Yet for some reason, you hold that against him.

Joe was 34 and 35, before he'd beaten two, top undefeated fighters.

It was just circumstances.

So the questions that you keep asking, have no relevance.

 

During The Super Six Tournament Andre Ward and Andre Dirrell were scheduled to fight. But neither camp made any preparations like training or arranging the event. When Fight Camps sports journalists started to ask questions they got weird answers.

Eventually, the TV-network Showtime called in the lawyers, and that's when Dirrell pulled out refearing to doctor Shaw Hi, which has been an epic joke here on ESB ever since.

Ward had no intentions to honour his contract with Showtime and fight Andre Dirrell. Why? Maybe he didn't want to fight a friend, maybe he was worried about Dirrells speed and reflexes. Regardless, Ward ducked Dirrell and it's well documented thanks to Fight Camps episodes.

Andre Ward ducked Lucian Bute. After The Super Six Tournament Bute called out Ward, but Ward told his manager he wanted a break with the grueling fights, because the tournament had been real tough. He also minimized Butes accomplishments, claiming Bute needed to "prove" himself.

I suspect that Ward didn't want to fight Bute because that would mean going to Montreol. Ward has few fans, but Bute has many, so the managers and TV-network would require Ward to travel and he seems to dislike that.

After that, Ward ducked Stevenson who were calling him out. Ward felt Stevenson didn't deserve a shot at the number one fighter. (Ward himself, that is.)

Conclusion: there is no reason of what so ever to hang on to Wards nuts. He had great potential and I'm sure he is a stand up guy, but as a boxing professional he was every bit as much of a bull****ter that Calzaghe ever was.

In a match up I think Calzaghe would get a UD or possible a SD. Ward is not a Floyd Mayweather. Sakio Bika had some success with him and so had Arthur Abraham. Also Carl Froch had a few good moments against The Son Of Good.

Calzaghe is on level with Ward when it comes to speed and reflexes, probably slightly ahead. This together with workrate and adaptability would make Ward lose the plot. To deal with Calzaghe, you need the power and feriocity to make him back down or flat out stop him. Ward does not.

 

Both fights were ugly (all Bika's fights are). Calzaghe clearly outclassed him, while you could make an argument that Ward should have lost (to an older Bika).

Kessler lost clean and clear to Calzaghe (on the inside especially). He won 3 rounds. Against Ward, he won 2 rounds despite being older, coming off a layoff/injury, headbutted/cut under and over both eyes, and clinched incessantly. Calzaghe-Kessler was a good fight. Ward-Kessler was not. In both cases, Calzaghe outperformed Ward years earlier. Calzaghe fans SHOULD have to explain that Ward beat Bika and Kessler worse than Calzaghe because they were older and/or shot. But we don't, because Calzaghe beat them worse than Ward.

Dirrell and Ward were scheduled to fight, Ward was balking at it and Showtime's legal team had to get involved. Luckily Abraham sent Dirrell out of the tournament before things got to that point. Dirrell is on the way back now, and his brother is a titleholder. They should both be on Ward's radar. Not suggesting Ward is currently ducking them, but he's not fighting them. Or anyone.

JCC Jr. fights at 168 now, and he's ranked #9 by the RING. I'm not suggesting that he's being ducked. If anything Ward would probably be happy to take that payday. The point I'm demonstrating is that Ward hasn't fought 8 of the 10 ranked fighters at his weight.

Looking further, you have Bute and Stevenson fighting at 175 now because Ward refused to fight them. Ward has also gone on record refusing to fight GGG.

Ward has not "fought everybody." He's fought the #1 and #2 contenders, but that doesn't come close to "everybody." He's more notable for who he hasn't fought at this point. Not because he's scared, but because he thinks he deserves more money/love/etc. and nobody is special enough to fight him. He's being an idiot.

And Abraham wasn't anywhere near being the #2 contender when Ward fought him. Kessler and Froch are Ward's two credible wins. Calzaghe made a much better showing against Kessler and was so much better than Froch that public opinion at the time was that it would be a totally pointless showcase fight. And of course we know how much better Froch was than Abraham.

 

AnotherFan,

With regards to Bute, I don't think Andre did duck him. I can see why people think he did, but I don't.

Andre had a fractured hand against Froch, and after winning the Super Six, he both wanted and needed a break.

That was his prerogative after winning the tournament.

He beat Carl late in 2011.

He then wasn't able to resume training until Jan/Feb 12, after he'd got the OK from the doctors.

Meanwhile, Carl had stepped in and agreed to fight Bute.

So I saw no problem whatsoever, why Andre couldn't take a break, to wait and see how a Froch vs Bute fight unfolded.

He didn't have to immediately sign to fight after him after the Super Six, and he couldn't have anyway, because of his hand.

But I don't think anybody could have predicted that Carl would have crushed him like he did.

In my honest opinion, that killed a potential Bute fight, because after Carl had destroyed him, nobody was interested. He was damaged goods.

But prior to that, I didn't see a problem with letting the fight build up for just a little while longer.

I respect your opinion, but I honestly believe that had Bute not lost to Carl, Andre would have fought him at some point.

 

If the broken hand was a big issue, that must be respected, but there are certain things that contradicts this. When the possibility of a fight against Bute were brought up Ward did not start to talk about his injured hand, but the typical Andre Ward mumbo jumbo about Butes lack of worthiness.

Just because there are rumours about injuries, or a fighter or his team states injury, you must not take for granted it's true. If you do, you must also assume that Joe Calzaghe offered fights to Carl Froch and Kelly Pavlik but were ducked, because Calzaghe says so.

Also, Wards hand looked fine when he fought Froch. He punched good and hard with it. So even if it was injured, was the injury that bad? The time frame were Ward was unavailable was real short. Could the doctors not predict that Ward likely would be good to go fairly soon?

What we know about Ward is that he never, and that is never, place himself in a situation were judges or a referee might screw him over. So he would never go fight Bute in Montreol. But he would be forced to if he agreed to fight him, because the event must make money and therefor it would be better to have the fight on Butes backyard, where there is an army of fans buying tickets compared to a fight in Michigan were only Wards closest family would show up.

Available facts suggests Ward ducked Bute. Like he ducked Andre Dirrell.

Happy new year, by the way.

 

Again, I respect your opinion.

Yes, Andre's hand injury was legit. There were photos of it after the fight. And there was a link, where the doctor had given him the OK to resume training. He'd actually fractured it.

The info should still be online.

I think what angered people, was that Andre said the winner of The Super Six should fight Bute, but then afterwards, he said he wanted to let the fight build up.

But like I've said, had Carl not beaten Bute, I think Andre would have fought him. I do honestly believe that.

Happy New year to you.

It's been a pleasure debating with you.

I'll look forward to more debates next year.


:good

 

AnotherFan,

I've just quickly found these links:

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/170843-mri-reveals-ward-beat-froch-with-a-broken-left-hand

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/7582638/andre-ward-cleared-training-long-hand-feels-ok

 

Super Hans, why do you hate Americans so bad?

 

Fine then, the hand was an issue :twisted:

Not that I'd take Andre Wards reference to a MRI taken by an unknown physician for proof, but his hand looks painfully swollen on the photo which I assume has been taken by The Rings reporter Lem Satterfield.

Ward fought Carl Froch the 17th of December and accordning to the other article you posted he was cleared to train by the doctor no later than the 16th of February. That would mean he had two months off before he was good to go. That's the severity of the injury, no more no less. Froch fought Bute the 26th of May. That means there was three months between Wards recovory and a suitable date for a fight.

If Ward were truly keen on fighting Bute he could have told him to wait while his hand healed, with a potential fight sometimes during the spring. But Ward beeing Ward harped on about Bute needing to prove himself which is flat out suspicious. With Bute schedueled to fight some other top opponent, Ward would not have to worry about the inconvenience about them both beeing available to get it on. This would suit his "take it easy for a while"-agenda perfectly well.

It still seems to me that Ward ducked Bute. Remember that Ward previously ducked the talented Andre Dirrell and later on would duck Adlonis Stevenson. There is a pattern here that must not be overlooked ...

 

I think after the Super Six when he didn't know how long he'd be out, he was more than happy to sit on the sidelines for a while.

He couldn't resume training until mid Feb, and if Carl fought Bute in May, the fight must have been signed sometime in March.

He didn't have to tell Bute anything, he just sat back and watched what unfolded. If Bute had've beaten Carl, I think they'd have fought, because there would have been a huge demand for the fight.

I think Andre only chose to fight Chad, because nobody was bothered about Bute, after Carl had beaten him. That's my honest opinion.

It's a shame Chad struggled with the weight, because that could have been a great fight.

But I don't think Andre feared Bute.

Maybe we'll still see the fight at some point?

I don't know anything about why Andre didn't fight Andre Dirrell. I like Dirrell a lot, and I think he was robbed against Carl. Are him and Andre really close or something?

Did they really duck each other?


:good