People Fault Hopkin's For The Jones Loss...

It's completely unfair and ridiculous to compare them that way. Hagler didn't have the longevity of Hopkins, but he did have the better success against better opposition in his prime years and throughout the larger percentage of his career(which spanned more fights in a shorter time than Hopkins's).

Do I think Hagler at a similar stage of his career(say Mugabi) could beat Taylor twice? Most certainly, and a lot more impressively.

Which is, again, why Hopkins outdoes him in longevity, nothing else.

 

Hopkins has also beaten a presumably better opponent at 175 than Taylor, well possibly two better since. I tend to wonder about Stewards (i think) comment regarding him starting to struggle with weight drainage at 160.

Leonards's subsequent battles don't shine good light on him either, struggling vs Donny at a catchweight and realistically losing to an also well past it Hearns.

Hopkins was more than due to succumb to father time and regardless of 100% hindsight he did it against the supposed heir.

Again, as for the successes i ponder if 160 simply caught up to him. But really, making out Hopkins was anything near his best is totally unfair. Lets imagine Hagler rematching Ray then going up and fighting the best fighter at 175 then taking on another top fighter next fight. After that a match vs close to the best P4P fighter in the sport rising up. Hagler has gone no-where near the waters Hopkins has end of career. Not even close.

Monzon beat his heir apparent at a similar stage to both and i bow to his greatness. This is one reason why so many have him on top of a fantastic heap. A sterling career with pretty much no drama's once he hit his considerable straps.

 

You think Mugabi was a better fighter at 160lbs than Taylor? I don't see it. he was a brawler with a big punch, nothing more. And Hagler struggled in that fight, his skills appeared to be all but clearly gone by this time, as he was taking a good amount of clean shots from Mugabi and just trading with him.

You say Taylor proved his lack of worth at 160 after his fights with hopkins, yet what did Mugabi do after Hagler? He got his ass handed to him over and over again.

 

Yep.

 

Tarver was presumably better than Taylor? Not really, and Wright at 170 wasn't really better either.

Leonard was extremely inconsistent around then, but he still managed to KO a much bigger champion in LaLonde.

Cool, but even if we're taking that way as a black eye, his secondary resume doesn't compare to Hagler's.

But he had a better prime, again Hopkins's longevity is the only real edge you can give him, that and that he went up in weight, but at MW Hagler clearly holds the edge.

I agree.

 

The version that faced Hagler, who looked quite good, showed very good power and toughness, as well as underrated countering ability. Taylor's only real attribute was his athleticism. I do concede that Hopkins just couldn't get on the ball fast enough at that stage of his career, but it doesn't bode well for him as a loss, even in comparison to Hagler's loss to Leonard.

 

He beat a weight drained Tarver and a smaller Wright at a catchweight to favor Hopkins's size advantage. That's really all he has to add to his MW career, aside from the Calzaghe loss. If he beats Pavlik we'll talk again.

 

sorry--mistaken entry

Have a good day.

 

I disagree. Leonard had not fought in 3 years, had only fought once in 5 years (and it was a horrible showing), and had never once been at 160lbs. After his fight with Hagler he had problems with a completely weight-drained fighter in Lalonde, who was never really impressive, should have lost the decision to Hearns, who himself was past his best, and decisioned a way, way past his prime Duran. Other than that, Terry Norris ran him over, and then 5 years later Hector Camacho did the same inside of 4 rounds.

Leonard was likely more past it than Hagler, naturally smaller, and still beat him.

I pick the Hopkins that lost to Taylor to beat the Leonard that fought Hagler. Taylor's size and overall athleticism gave Hopkins problems (I though Hopkins clearly won the first fight, but Taylor deserved the 2nd), This version of Leonard would not do so against Hopkins. SRL outsmarted Hagler, he made him fight his fight. He isn't going to make Hopkins fight his fight.

I think very close decision losses to Taylor, who isn't a bad fighter, when your 40 years old (I personally feel Joppy was the last performance of an absolute prime Hopkins, and he may have been a little past it there as well), isn't any worse than a close decision lost to an inactive and clearly past his best Leonard in his middleweight debut.

 

OK well I'm not going back and forth between the two of you so I'll just say that I'm speaking in literal terms when I'm mentioning a fighter's worth at the time of the fight, I couldn't care less about their paper resumes.