People say Ali beat better competition than Louis

That's very true Shay although I have to say I definately favour the '67 version of Ali over Joe, or anyone else for that matter, he was just too fast.

 

George Foreman fought until he was nine hundred years old. If my memory is correct he fought four members of the International Boxing Hall of Fame and five champions. Only one man made him taste the canvas for a ten count.

 

Go on then, I'll bite.

Please name 15 of Louis's wins that were better than those over JJW.

 

This is chronological order btw

Carnera
Max Baer
Uzcudchin
Braddock
Farr
Mann
Schmeling
John Henry Lewis
Godoy II
Buddy Baer I
Nova
Buddy Baer II
Simon II
Mauriello
Conn II

If we're talking strictly opponent name we can add the other Godoy, Simon and Conn fights. That gets it up to 18. Wins I'd still be ranking Walcott over include Jack Sharkey, Pastorx2, Red Burman, Harry Thomas and Tony Galento. So I didn't have to stretch to get to 15 at all. This could have been 20 very easily.

 

I suspect you're trolling, but I'll play along regardless.

Firstly, part of my suspicion is derived from you citing the obviously lesser versions of Simon and Conn, and not the better versions from their respective first contests vs Louis.

Secondly, of those listed, I consider Schmeling better than JJW. That's it. Not just for me, but for the vast majority, too. Baer could be argued as such without verging towards the absurd, but again, that's it.

Going into the 1st Louis fight, JJW was on a 14-2 run. His losses were to Joey Maxim, who he subsequently beat twice, and Elmer Ray by SD, who he also went on to beat before facing Louis. During that run he also beat Lee Murray, Steve Dudas, Curtis Sheppard, Jimmy Bivins and Lee Oma. This was a very different fighter to the journeyman JJW that Abe Simon had beaten several years earlier. This was a fighter on a 16 fight streak against mostly top contenders and beating every one of them. He had a split 2-2 series with Ezzard Charles in his future, too. The majority of reporters scored the first Louis fight to him. That's a Louis who, whilst past prime, was still formidable.

Taking only Simon, he was on a 2-3-1 run going into Louis 2, which was Abe's final fight. One of those 3 losses was to Louis, another to the admittedly decent Lem Franklin with the 3rd to the 16-11-2 Jim Thompson, who was in his final fight when he beat Simon. Simon was done. Louis dropped Simon in the 2nd and 5th rounds, and stopped him in the 6th.

Simon 2 being a better win for Louis than JJW, is right up there with the most ridiculous claims I've seen on this site, and believe me, that is a substantial statement. A poll would reveal in excess of 95% voting JJW as the better Louis win(s).

 

He beat Lee Murray because Lee Murray was DQd for not trying. Walcott got 5 title shots coming off of losses and many of his wins were narrow 10 round decisions.

Abe Simon was a superheavyweight.

 

If that's the best you've got in a defence of an absurd position, that's in the extreme minority, we'll leave it there.

 

I'm right minority or not. Walcott is overrated because hes a lineal champ due to the oppurtunities he got that no one else in boxing history did with the possible exception of Holyfield. People hear Jersey Joe Walcott(best nickname in the history of boxing) and see he almost beat Joe Louis and they think "legend".

Having Schmeling as the only Louis opponent above Walcott is the absurd position.

 

Interesting thoughts on this thread ... I personally think the best fighter Louis defeated may have been Walcott but I also feel Louis beats Frazier ( starts too fast) and Foreman (too hittable) ... nt sure about the best late 1950's version of Liston or Ali ..

 

He's intolerable offers nothing to any thread apart from the same 1 sentence answers honestly one of the worst posters in the classic forum offers 0 substance to any thread.

 

He exists to protect Rocky's legacy.

 

JJW beat:

Ezzard Charles x 2
Elmer Ray x 2
Jimmy Bivins
Curtis Sheppard x 2
Lee Murray
Harold Johnson
Joey Maxim x 2
Lee Oma
Joe Baksi
Johnny Shkor by KO1 - 3 years earlier Shkor stopped Tami Mauriello, another you claim as a better Louis win than JJW

Abe Simon's best wins are:

A pre prime JJW
Gunnar Barland
Al Delaney
Willie Reddish

That is why your view is both in the extreme minority and very, very wrong.