People saying Cotto won because Sergio wasn't 100%

Xelloss wants to see what he feels are mismatches, and yet he thinks that's being respectful to the sport...lol. And how is dropping the belt so that three G wins a vacated title respectful...do you know what respect is?

 

How can you not see Sergio was done? If his knee truly wasn't a factor then why is he retiring because of it?

Look, I have always said that Sergio is one of the most suspect PED users of all time and was never a fan but this guy almost fully depended on his athletic ability due to terrible fundamentals. He took the fight for the payday and I doubt he admitted to himself how shot he was. I think he thought so little of Cotto that he would beat him anyway. Many fighters would have walked out of that ring with a W that night in my opinion.

 

Dude, do you work for the Oceania Ministry of Truth or something?

Honestly you would prefer to see Cotto fight Welters and call himself MW champ?

As far as vacant belt go, sure. I have no problem with Cotto dropping belt if he doesnt want to defend vs top 160 guys. GGG can get elevated from Interim with a match vs next highest WBC guy, then make a fight with Lee and establish a new lineage.

(I dont count Haymon held belts, but if HNN wins the IBF then GGG would need to beat him as well)

Sometimes lineages come to an end and have to be reestablished. Its just how it is.

 

What makes people think Sergio would be reliant on his athletic/boxing ability against the much smaller Cotto?? Do you even realize how he would've been laughed at coming with movement in mind against a much smaller opponent? Truth is there's a very good chance we saw exactly what would've seen irregardless of any perceived circumstances. Sergio full well may have believed he could bully Cotto, this was evidenced in the fight and with his attitude toward him before the fight, leaving him to get caught early and never recover just as had happened.

 

I completely overstand your thought process here however you need to factor in the fact that strategically none of the other orthodox fighter where able to execute an effective offense on a flat footed counter minded Sergio the way Cotto did by feinting jabs to the body stepping on the inside of the southpaw and delivering left hooks while Cotto's shoulder was lined up directly across Martinez's chest....he expects a thudding jab coming from below shooting upward and instead eats wide left hook from a blind spot......

Again I'm not ****ting on dudes who rely heavily on the fact that he wasnt the same athlete he was years ago though to dismiss the blue print coming to fruition is just a damn sin.

 

Then it's no longer a lineage. And I'm not being a smart ass with that answer, that is a factual statement. Since, the belt is not passed from one to the next, it is simply no longer a lineage and does not hold the the significance you desire from it anyway. So it makes no sense to drop it for three G, like I was saying.

 

Um yeah it is. The current MW lineage doesnt date back to the dawn of time by any stretch, it derives from Hopkins who re-established it.

Its unfortunate but Sergio decided to take Cotto instead of passing the torch. If Cotto opts not to keep the lineage in the actual division, then its broken. Eventually someone will manage to step up and become the undisputed champ at 160 again.

At which point a new lineage will begin.

*edit for edit:

Your correct if you are saying GGG would not be lineal champ for winning vacant belt. As I said earlier, in that case he would also have to win additional belts and become Undisputed to start a new lineage.

GGG can become lineal 2 ways - 1) beat Cotto, and continue the lineage derived from Hopkins.

2) Hold and defend all available belts at least once without being defeated. (BHOP never held them all simultaneously due to politics, etc but still was considered to start new lineage and was undisputably the Man at 160)

 

So when someone vacates it's still considered lineage?...if that's true it's still dumb and doesn't fall in line with any actual definition of lineage.

 

No. If someone vacates its not considered a lineage.

Thats why.. in addition to obtaining full WBC (vacant) belt, GGG or whomever would also have to win additional belts. The establish a "new" lineage. Or in other words, do it the hard way.

At this current point in time, it would mean also beating Andy Lee for WBO belt. If a relevant fighter like HNN won the IBF and brought it outside Haymon league hands (Haymon fighter held belts are no better than WBF or w/e, or BKB belts ) they would need that belt as well.

He would have to do it like Hopkins did it, and beat many people... not do it like Sergio or Cotto did by beating one guy.

 

I see what you're saying, you want Cotto to drop the belt so that three G at least has the opportunity to create a new lineage. Fair argument, but people put too stock into the belts in the first place, that's why they make good bargaining chips and why fighters want them in the first place. It's the fighters that should be honored, not the belts, the belts are there to honor the fighters. If that thinking would fall into place so would everything else, when people stop thinking of the belt as the thing to admired, desired, honored, and respected, then it will no longer be recognized as bargaining chips by the fighters, and the belts will return from to their original intention, to honor the fighters.

 

Its not even about the belts so much as its about "who is the best MW".

What is the point of holding titles and honors for a division you are not fighting in? What relevance does it have?

Many fighters, not just GGG dedicate their lives and careers toward working for titles and honors in their weight division. Also not just fighters, but fans want to see and recognize who the best is at a given weight.

The MW titles should be for guys who fight at 160, just like the WW, jrWW, etc weight classes should all have their own champions and titles. If you are going to call yourself the "champion" aka the "best" at a given weight, you should be proving it at that weight.

This is a universal thing, not just something regarding Cotto or any one fighter. While boxing is both a business and a sport, when the sporting aspect (things like having real champions of weight classes) get completely discarded it is harmful to the business aspect in the long run as well. The game loses credibility.

Career 160 pounders should have the ability to win the titles and championship of their own division. Same for any division.

 

It's hard for me to think you are being honest with yourself with that first sentence. Case in point, you can say three G is the best middle as many do, and you can only hear a barely audible argument against that in this point of time. In other words, he is largely recognized as the best middle right now but yet, that is not good enough for you which contradicts your first sentence and reinforces my assertion that people put too much stock into titles.

Unfortunately, the organization's that create these belts have to make many concessions on who gets to fight for the belt in order to keep the cash flow moving. They do their best (some not) to try and ensure fighters don't hold belts hostage by establishing timeline's in which to defend them, and for a fighter to just drop a belt before his time is up and forfeit a future opportunity with a good bargaining chip is almost unheard of...especially when the case is supposedly "well this fighter is better than me and I'm never going to fight him so I should vacate since I'm never going to fight him" that is simply a stretch, fighters seldom think like that.

How many times do you know that a fighter has vacated a belt before their time was up? I bet it hasn't been very many, it doesn't mean they were being disrespectful, keeping the options open that are allowed to you is not disrespectful.

 

Its not contradictory, right now for better or worse (and you know where I sit on that spectrum) Cotto is history's champion.

You are correct about what often happens, or in this case does not happen.

But it doesnt mean that when fighters pull this kind of stuff that they wont justifiably get flak from fans.

Inn all likelihood if the Canelo fight doesnt come off, Cotto will fight Bradley. Cotto fans will talk it up, as the rest of the world pukes. If you want to support it fine, thats your right and opinion.

But you cant reasonably expect the rest of us not to reach for the barf bag.

 

The blueprint would never work if Sergio had his athleticism.

It's like saying people beating RJJ now are doing it because of executing the correct gameplan. Everyone tries to do the right thing, but it tends to work better when your opponent can't do sh!t about it.

 

Cotto-Bradley would be the first Cotto ppv I did not order.