People slag off calzaghes opposition

Calzaghe won the WBO in 1997.

WBO World: Eubank '91-'94 > Collins '95-'97 > Calzaghe '97-'07 (Veit somehow got it twice in '04, hence the rematch)

WBA World/Super World: Liles '94-'98 > Mitchell '99 > Girard '00 > Mitchell '01-'03 > Ottke '03-'04 > Siaca '04 > Kessler '04-'07 > Calzaghe '07

WBC World: Reid '96-'97 > Malinga '97 > Woodhall '98-'99 > Beyer '99-'00 > Catley/Thibela/Hilton '00 > Lucas '01-'03 > Beyer '03-'06 (switched with Sanavia and Green briefly) > Kessler '06-'07 > Calzaghe '07

IBF World: Ottke '98-'04 > Lacy '04-'06 > Calzaghe '06

I don't think you can call a belt that came from Leonard, Hearns, Eubank, and Collins 'bogus,' particularly when you look at what was going on with the other belts those days. There realy isn't an arguent that it was the best belt if you follow the 'champ makes the belt' logic.

And if you don't then you're an idiot. :good

 

Please refer to Loudon's links for clarity. :good

 

Read them. Went like this :shock: atsch.

Doesn't change the fact that the WBO had hands down the strongest champions during the 90's-2000's.

I'll put Leonard, Hearns, Eubank, Collins, and Calzaghe up against Ottke, Beyer, Lucas, and Siaca any day.

 

It was still lightly regarded, and it wasn't required to unify.

The Ring magazine didn't rank it.

But what made things worse for Joe, was that SMW was also weak in the late 90's/early 00's.

 

Did you really say the WBO had the strongest champions in 90's - 2000's while also listing Otteke Beyer And Calzaghe ?

You can't be serious :huh

 

All true.

But let me ask you this:

Golovkin is a titleholder at 160. Lee, Cotto, and Taylor are the others. For a few years GGG has been regarded as the people's champ at 160. Nobody is going to beat him there, everybody knows it, no champs will fight him, and he's settled into beating up gatekeepers and mandatories.

In the division below him we have Pacquiao, Mayweather, and Alvarez, the 3 biggest money names in boxing. Above him we have JCC Jr., Ward, Froch, and Abraham, all of whom would add to his status and bring him a lot of money.

If he moves up, he's never getting the big PPV money fight. He might not get a shot at a title at 168 either...Froch and JCC Jr. have pretty much ruled him out, and Ward has refused as well because he isn't a big enough name. But if he sticks around at 160, he might not even get a chance to unify.

What should Golovkin, as the true champ at 160 and the boogeyman that all the other fighters are ducking based on risk-reward do? Stay there and defend his title until people are forced to fight him? Move up and start the same exact process at a new weight with no guarantee of any reward?

 

I don't think you followed what I said:

WBO: Leonard, Hearns, Benn, Eubank, Collins, and Calzaghe
WBC/WBA/IBF: Ottke, Beyer, Lucas, and a bunch of guys that Calzaghe beat.

The WBO was the strongest belt at 168, regardless of its status relative to the other belts. It had the better champions.

 

Good question.

He's in a predicament isn't he?

I think he should stay at MW a little while longer. I think he'd be silly not to at this stage. I think he will stay there for a while. He can try and unify, and he can see what Cotto does, and wait to see if Canelo will move up.

While he remains at MW, he can also see how things are unfolding at SMW. Within the next 18 months, I think Froch will be gone, and hopefully Ward will have sorted himself out and be active. Guys like Andre Dirrell might start to make waves again, and Degale could become a star attraction.

Although GGG is 30 plus, I think he's got a good few years left in him yet. So I think he has to commit to at least another 12-18 months in the division. I don't see the point in him moving anywhere at the moment.

 

Oh wow... Did not know this! WBO haha.

I know it's legit now but to re-write history and pretend it's always been legit is wrong. That would be like in 20 years making a big deal of the IBO title and citing fighters like Oosthuizen and Buthelezi as former world champions on par with holders of WBC/WBA/etc.

 

I agree. The situation isn't right for a move.

Compare that to the situation Calzaghe (p4p 06-08 ) was in. In his own division, there were 3 other belts floating around that were really his, but he wasn't allowed to fight for them because the result would be a foregone conclusion. All the big money PPV stars were at 160, and at 175 there were a group of guys either ducking all serious challenges (Jones) or losing to each other right and left (Jones/Tarver/Johnson post '03). Meanwhile, he's not getting any younger and injuries are piling up.

160: ODLH/Trinidad/Wright/Hopkins/Taylor/Pavlik

'97-'05: Hopkins (p4p 99-05)
*Many tales of almost-fights between these two. Hopkins jumping 168 is kind of telling. And Calzaghe did beat him at 175...

'01-'05: Trinidad at 160
*I don't think this was a consideration, but it may have kept Calzaghe at 175 much the same way that Floyd/Manny at 154 kept Sergio and GGG waiting at 160 just in case...

'04: ODLH at 160
*See above.

'05-'07: Taylor (p4p 06)
*Remember the Calzaghe/Manfredo fight? That was part of an agreement to set up a Taylor fight. Taylor lost to Pavlik instead...

'05-'07: Wright at 160 (p4p 04-07)
*As far as I know this was never discussed, but see 'Trinidad,' 'ODLH.'

'07-'08: Pavlik
*After beating Hopkins, Calzaghe wanted the Pavlik fight. Pavlik went with Hopkins, Calzaghe went with Jones, and we saw what Hopkins did to Pavlik.

168: Ottke/Beyer/Lucas
*While none of these guys were big names, they had titles. By unifying the division, Calzaghe hoped to lure big-name opponents up from 160. He could then use his success to bargain for big-name fights at 175, which there was no way he would get as an unknown beltholder from Wales.

Calzaghe spent around 10 years fighting guys who had just lost disputed decisions/outright robberies to these guys while trying to lure them into a unification. It didn't work until Kessler and Lacy picked up the belts.

175: RJJ/Johnson/Tarver/Hopkins

'96-'04: RJJ at 175 (p4p 96-03)
*Calzaghe could have moved up to 175, but I doubt he'd have had any more luck or claim to an RJJ fight than Michalzewski. Jones was in the risk/reward business, for those of you who don't remember.

'96-'08: Johnson at 175 (p4p 04) 15-12-2 record during timeframe.
*At one point this fight was made and Calzaghe pulled out due to an injury. It was one of the very short and infrequent windows in Johnson's career when he wasn't losing.

'03-'08: Tarver at 175 (p4p 03-04)
*Tarver, Jones, and Johnson were busy having a three-way in this timeframe.

'06-'08: Hopkins at 175 (p4p 06-08)
*This ended up working out.

 

Yeah, because Hearns, Eubank, Collins, and Calzaghe are nowhere NEAR the great champions that Ottke, Beyer, Lucas, Malinga, Galvano, Nardiello, Reid, Woodhall, Thobela, Hilton, Catley, Green, Sanavia, Tiozzo, Cordoba, Girard, Mundine, Little, Siaca, Mitchell, Holmes, Van Horn, Barkley, Brewer, Lacy, and Kessler were. :roll:

From 1990-2007 (when Calzaghe moved up) I'll give you these:
-Liles and Nunn (WBA 92-98 )
-Toney and Jones (IBF '93-'96)
-Benn and Eubank (WBC '92-'95)

Other than that I think saying the WBO 168lb strap was a weak title is indefensible. It had the most solid lineage of any of them during that 17 year period. 4 champs, all great fighters.

 

That's not the point at all...

What you're saying is like me saying:

"Well, the IBO lineage over the last 8 years at Heavyweight is way better than the WBA lineage over the last 8 years at Heavyweight and therefore the IBO should be more respected."

Hopefully you see what I am saying and I need not go on any further.

 

Calzaghe is the best 168lber of all times

 

I know what you're saying. But you were using Oosthuzien ffs and that just isn't right

My point is that respected or not, the WBO had a better track record than ALL the other belts at 168. And it became recognized as legit during Calzaghe's reign. People are trying to shiit on Calzaghe because of which worthless belt he decided to pick up and defend, which would be dumb enough in the first place, let alone when the other 3 belts legitimately sucked during his era.

 

Well talking about what you don't know is your favourite past time on this site as you know nothing. This is a terrible post even by your tawdry standards.

We could make the same arguments about Calazaghe and his hand injuries and how that would have affected his career. We don't know for sure how much impact that had.

What we do know is whatever he'd have done you'd have found a way to try and discredit it. Anyway I'm done playing with you little boy.