Percy Price '1960 Olympic Heavyweight'

I have researched this for years and I can not find any proof that Price even fought Ali (Clay). They claim that he beat Ali during the 1960 Olympic Trials which never happened. If anyone has proof, like an article in 1960, not years later, that this happened, PLEASE post it!

 

Looks like a pretty standard Senor Pepe fantasy thread.

The interesting thing about Price is that despite winning the Olympic trials he almost lost his spot to Cassius Clay who had actually beaten him at heavyweight in the Golden Gloves several months previously. The idea was that Clay would move up to heavyweight and the light-heavyweight spot would go to runner-up Allen Hudson.

As it turned out, Hudson had to pull out with a hand injury so Price was back on the team and Clay stayed at light-heavy.

https://pasteboard.co/K9K6Gdb.png

 

271 KO's? That's a frightening amount of stoppages.

 

YES! I have the articles But I can not find any records of them fighting each other!

Here's Ali's (Clay's) 1960 Amateur bouts:

1960
Feb 1 William Page TKO 3 (1:57) Louisville 180 Kentucky GG Heavyweight Quarters
Feb 3 Asia Page TKO 1 (1:5? ) Louisville 180 Kentucky GG Heavyweight Semis
Feb 4 Ronnie Craddock TKO 2 (1:34) Louisville Kentucky GG Heavyweight Finals
.
Mar 1 John Wilson TKO 1 (1:37) Chicago Chicago Tourn. Of Champ HE 1st Rd.
Mar 1 Henry Harris, Jr. TKO 3 (1:14) Chicago Chicago Tourn. Of Champ HE 2nd Rd.
Mar 2 Bill Nielsen W 3 (unan) Chicago Chicago Tourn. Of Champ HE Quarters
Mar 2 Al Jenkins W 3 (unan) Chicago Chicago Tourn. Of Champ HE Semis
Mar 9 Jimmy Jones W 3 (unan) Chicago Chicago Tourn. Of Champ HE Finals
.
Mar 21 Gary Jawish TKO 3 (1:59) New York Won Intercity GG Heavyweight Title
.
Apr 7 Joe Reynolds W 3 (unan) Toledo National AAU LH 1st Round
Apr 8 Ray Whetstone TKO 2 (1:15) Toledo National AAU LH Quarterfinals
Apr 9 Billy Joiner W 3 (unan) Toledo National AAU LH Semifinals
Apr 9 Jeff Davis TKO 2 (1:25) Toledo National AAU LH Finals
.
Apr 14 Roy Ector TKO 3 (0:55) Louisville East.Reg'n Olympic Trials LH Quarters
Apr 15 Fred Walden TKO 3 (2:59) Louisville East.Reg'n Olympic Trials LH Semis
Apr 16 Charles Hannah TKO 2 (2:49) Louisville East.Reg'n Olympic Trials LH Finals
.
May 18 Henry Cooper TKO 3 San Francisco U.S. Olympic Trials LH Quarters
May 19 Fred Lewis W 3 San Francisco U.S. Olympic Trials LH Semis
May 20 Allen Hudson TKO 3 San Francisco U.S. Olympic Trials LH Finals
.
Aug 30 Yvon Because TKO 2 (1:50) Rome Olympics Light Heavy 1st Round
Sep 1 Genadiy Schatkov W 3 (unan) Rome Olympics Light Heavy Quarterfinals
Sep 3 Tony Madigan W 3 (unan) Rome Olympics Light Heavy Semifinals
Sep 5 Zbigniew Pietrzykowski W 3 (unan) Rome Olympics Light Heavy Finals

PLUS: This bout is on some of his records But I can not find it on my research.
Toledo, Ohio, National AAU champion, 81 kg / 178 lbs
Apr. 6, 1960, Johnny Monahue, Toledo, Ohio - WPTS 3

 

Immaculate scholarship by the only true genius to ever grace this board.

 

Yes, to be honest the more I think about it the more I feel I probably put too much faith in that article which says Clay held a win over Price. Even though the reporting of amateur bouts tends to be patchy, it's still hard to believe that this result wouldn't be mentioned anywhere else.

One possibility is that after winning their respective Olympic trials they were tested against each other in the gym, with Clay the better man in the eyes of most onlookers but no decision given. That would explain how Price came to be in danger of losing his place on the team, and yet years later was claiming the win.

 

I found an article where Clay mentions working with Price in the gym but nothing beyond that.

Then again, what I have always said about Pepe's amazing, challenging, revolutionary forms of research... If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you. I mean, I'm a little man, I'm a little man, he's... he's a great man!

 

Here's an article about Price being destroyed by Ali (Clay).

It just doesn't seem fair. Surkein said that in 1960, the 11 Olympic qualifiers boxed against each other in the training camp. "It was a joke," Surkein said. "Muhammad Ali, who was then Casslus Clay, was our light heavyweight. But he just destroyed Percy Price, our heavyweight, when they sparred. We could have sent Muhammad as the heavyweight and replaced him with someone else. But we couldn't do it." Surkein said that in 1964, the qualifiers boxed a series of exhibitions against boxers In prisons.

 

Well, what has obviously happened is "Team Ali" has "scrubbed" the internet to remove any mention of Cassius Clay losing to Percy Price.

(I'm kidding.)

So, it is interesting because, in 1960, USA Boxing doesn't appear to have implemented the "Boxoffs" yet. But, clearly, winning the Olympic Trials didn't necessarily get you in.

When I started following boxing in the 1970s up until the early 2000s, they would hold the Olympic Trials a few months before the Olympics. If you performed well in the Trials but didn't win, you could qualify to fight in the Boxoffs against the winner of the Trials. But you had to beat the winner of the Olympic Trials TWICE in the boxoffs to get on the Olympic Team. It was tough, but some guys who lost in the Trials did win the Boxoffs, like Holyfield, Bowe, etc., and made the Olympic team.

Anyway, in early 1960, according to the March 1, 1960, issue of the Louisville paper (The Courier-Journal) Cassius Clay moved up to heavyweight, apparently, to give his brother, Rudy, also a light heavyweight, a chance to win the Chicago Golden Gloves tournament in 1960. Rudy wasn't all that great and Cassius barely weighed more then 180, so it wasn't such a great decision. Anyway, Rudy lost. Cassius won.

Then Cassius continued on and won the heavyweight division in the NY Golden Gloves. Again, he was barely over 180. The heavyweight division was unlimited.

Then he decided to go back to light heavyweight. He won the Olympic Trials at light heavyweight by stopping Allen Hudson, who earlier in the fight dropped Clay. When the referee stopped Hudson, he apparently got highly emotional afterward and tried to attack the referee.

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By all accounts, Percy Price also looked impressive in the Trials. In the May 20, 1960, issue of the Santa Cruz Sentinal, it says Price dropped Archie Milton, Milton got up on shaky legs, was dropped again and fell out of the ring and hit his head on a table and stopped breathing for a few moments. Which shook everyone up. Price then won in the final.

However, in the July 10, 1960, issue of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, it says the head of the US Olympic Team Julius Menendez attended a military tournament in Europe to scout the Italian boxing team, because the Games were being held in Rome.

At that tournament, Percy Price lost in the first round to the Italian heavyweight Franco De Piccoli. This time, Price was the one who fell out of the ring. By the time he scrambled back in, the referee had counted to 10. However, unlike his Olympic Trials opponent, Price didn't seem too hurt. The ropes just appeared to be really loose.

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But the loss must have 'spooked' the Olympic coach, because the U.S. had won the last two Olympic heavyweight gold medals in 1952 (Ed Sanders beat Ingemar Johansson and Pete Rademacher stopped all his opponents in 1956).

So the US Olympic coach considered replacing Price on the team. (De Piccoli would end up winning the Olympic Gold medal with a first-round KO over his South African opponent in the final.)

In the July 30, 1960, issue of the Louisville Courier-Journal, the writer Earl Ruby runs an article with a number of odd statements. He says:

Louisville's Cassius Clay is being moved up to the heavyweight division on the United States Olympic boxing team. He is to replace Percy Price Jr. of Philadelphia in the No. 1 spot on the American outfit. Clay competed for the light heavyweight assignment and won it in the Olympic Trials at San Francisco in June. The switch is being made because Clay defeated Price quite easily in winning the National Golden Gloves heavyweight championship.

In the finals at San Francisco, Clay knocked out Allen Hudson of Long Island. But Hudson looked so much better in defeat than Price did that the coaches figured it would be better to move Clay up a notch, drop Price, and make room for Hudson. The change will increase Clay's responsibilities and make his road to a gold medal much rougher. But it should strengthen the team considerably.

Like I said earlier, by all accounts, Price looked very good at the Olympic Trials. And Clay and Price didn't fight in that Golden Gloves tournament. So Earl either got his facts wrong or was just passing along the new party line by the US coaches.

Anyway, apparently Hudson was going to be the light heavyweight representative, but plans changed again.

Two weeks later, on August 16, 1960, the same Earl Ruby wrote in the Louisville paper this:

Just back of them was Cassius Clay, tall Louisville boxer. Cassius holdes the National A.A.U. heavyweight boxing championship. He qualified as a light heavy on the Olympic team. They switched him to heavy because he had defeated Percy Price, the heavyweight qualifier.

Then, just as everything was set, Allen Hudson, who had been moved into the lightheavy spot, broke a hand ... Cassius was moved back to light heavy and Percy reinstated.

"It suits me fine," grinned Cassius. "Except I been eating more since weight wasn't a problem. I'm five pounds too heavy now for light heavy. Gotta watch out from now on."

Meanwhile, in the Philadelphia Daily News on Aug. 27, 1960, they profiled Percy Price. And that article alludes to the fact that Price didn't FINALLY make the team until he and Clay fought at Fort Dix, New Jersey, a week before the team left for Rome.

Apparently 21 boxers were invited to Fort Dix. And they held what amounted to an Olympic Boxoff, although they didn't call it that. And Price, again, looked impressive. At least enough that they decided to tell Cassius Clay that he needed to start losing weight over the next week so he could fight at light heavyweight again.

Seems like a lot of chaos, regardless.

The article says:

Percy's overall record is 23-4. He says he honestly doesn't remember how many were knockouts.

But Julie Menendez, the renowned boxing coach of San Jose State College and manager of the Olympic team, comes on more eloquently about Price's punching power.

"He has a real good right hand," says Julie. "Real good."

Percy was one of 21 boxers selected for the last training stretch at Ft. Dix, N.J. Unlike track and field, Olympic boxing is treated realistically by its officials. A man doesn't go to camp with the team already made.

Percy earned his ticket with an impressive performance against amateur hotshot Cassius Clay only one week before the team was scheduled to leave for the Games. According to boxing men, Clay is the finest pro prospect in the country.

"Percy doesn't have Clay's finesse, yet," Menendez admits. "He lost the first two rounds. But in the third, he came on very strong. If there had been a fourth round, I think he would have gone right through Clay."

As a result, Clay has gone on a special training diet. He'll represent the U.S., too. But as a light heavyweight. The Marines don't move over easily."

Since the team left for Rome on August 15, 1960, I believe, the Clay-Price bout (or whatever it was) at Ft. Dix must have taken place no later than Aug. 8, 1960.

And, finally, here is a photo of the two in the ring together while training in Rome on Aug. 21, 1960. I found this same photo on Aug. 22, 1960 in the Louisville paper. But this photo is clearer.

https://i.ibb.co/VTTj4yk/29-Aug-2010-Page-A6-The-Courier-Journal.jpg

 

Yes, I have all that as well, nice job. I know they sparred at Fort Dix But that was ONLY a training session not a sanction bout.

 

Just following up.

In the Aug. 1, 1960 issue of the Fort Worth Star.

Olympic Boxers Set Exhibition Contests
NEW YORK, July 30, 1960 (AP) - The 23 members of the U.S. Olympic boxing squad will appear in a number of exhibition bouts, Wednesday, Aug. 3, at Ft. Dix, N.J., where the squad has been training since July 17.

The squad will be trimmed to 10 men by Aug. 4, one each for the various Olympic weight divisions. The team with its coach, Jules Melendez of San Jose State and manager, Ben Becker of Albany, N.Y., will report at New York, Saturday, Aug. 13, to receive uniforms. The team will leave for Rome Aug. 15 by chartered plane.

In the Aug. 5, 1960, issue of the Courier-Post.

Olympic Boxers in Trial Bouts

Fort Dix (UPI) - Members of the Olympic boxing team staged six three-round trial bouts at Fort Dix Thursday night in their last public exhibition before the group leaves for Rome.

No decisions were announced in the bouts. The fights were watched by an audience of 4,000.

In the Aug. 9, 1960, issue of the Asbury Park Press, was an article that read:

Olympic Boxers Finish Training

FT. DIX (AP) - The 10-man U.S. Olympic boxing team, including 147-pound champion Phil Baldwin of Muskegon Heights, Mich., will close out two months of training here Friday and leave for New York.

The squad will fly to Rome after a three-day rest in New York.

Coach Julius Menendez picked the 10-man squad from the 21 boxers training here. Baldwin suffered a nose injury and did not fight here. He was picked on past performance.

So had they actually faced off it was likely on Wednesday, Aug. 3, 1960, or on Thursday, Aug. 4, in Ft. Dix, N.J. If you're looking for a date.

 

Possibly the confusion comes from the fact that the Ft. Dix fights were also called Olympic trial bouts by United Press International in newspapers at that time. And when people said Price beat Clay in the Olympic trials, maybe those people were initially referring to the fight in front of 4,000 people at Ft. Dix and not the previous official Olympic Trials in San Francisco.

And, over time, people saw Olympic Trials and just assumed they meant San Francisco.

Because in the articles about the Fort Dix matches, they are also referred to as Olympic trial bouts by UPI. And those are the bouts where they actually decided the 10-man team, even though no decisions were rendered. But the bouts were held publicly. They weren't just spars.

Maybe that's why they decided, after that, to officially name those final bouts the BoxOffs. Because they didn't want to keep calling them Trials when they had already officially held the Trials?

When the Ft. Dix bouts to select the final team in 1960 happened, the term Olympic boxoffs didn't exist yet.

Makes sense.

 

Long story short, the Olympic Trials light heavyweight winner and the Olympic Trials heavyweight winner squared off in what amounted to "the boxoffs" at heavyweight at Fort Dix.

And, if the head coach was being honest, Price was coming on strong at the end and may have "gone right through Clay" if there had been one more round. So, after the no-decision bout, the coaches decided to stay put with the way they had them.

Probably good that they did. Doubt Clay could've beaten the southpaw Italian heavyweight who won gold. I've watched the Olympic light heavyweight final a 100 times and I think Clay lost 50 percent of the time. Seemed like a toss-up.