Perfect (or close to it) retirements.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JohnThomas1, Oct 21, 2017.


  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Oh come on!

    He's given a pass for the Tyson loss and he was completely inactive and had no real time to prepare as well as being over the hill vs a guy many were thinking was the best ever!

    Against Mercer he was fighting a guy who had actually given up his title to fight Holmes. Mercer was coming off a KO of Tommy Morrison. Holmes beat him convincingly at age 42!

    Mercer was a top 5 Heavyweight, and for anyone denying that certainly well inside the top 10!

    Holmes beat a top 5 champ (for all intents and purposes) at age 42.


    McCall was coming off a dramatic KO of Lennox Lewis and Holmes ran him extremely close!

    I fail to see how these successes are not legacy enhancing. He had not much to lose. No-one expected him to beat the likes of Tyon and Holyfield and he beat 4-1 fave McCall convincingly as well as running McCall close.
     
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  2. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Edre Jofre .. After losing to Harada, he retired. After taking 3 years off , he came back and went 25-0 and won another tiltle and at FW beating Legra. What a great career
     
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  3. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Khaosai Galaxy. Undefeated for 10 years with 19 title defenses when he decided to hang them up.
     
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  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I am talking with hindsight. Spinks with Tyson is mainly hurt by the more casual fan, Hagler suffers more so. Guys like you and i realise Spinks for all intents and purposes was a GREAT 175'er.

    Agree the money greatly benefited both but Hagler could have survived without it.
     
  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I really should have mentioned Monzon in the OP!!!!
     
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  6. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Brian Mitchell deserves a mention. After losing his 7th fight, he never lost again going 45-1-3. And late in his career after drawing with Lopez, he comes back to beat him that same year.
     
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  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Pretending Mercer's "WBO" (relinquished or otherwise) title makes him any sort of champion while Holyfield was undisputed champion is disingenous.
    You were around in the era, so you know as well as I do, that WBO belt meant nothing.

    Aside from Mercer, you're talking about losses being successes.
    You're talking about an old, flabby, out-of-shape former-great (a sad caricature of his old self, for the most part) "enhancing his legacy" by spoiling his way through a few fights.

    I think your viewpoint possibly stems from an under-rating of PRIME Holmes.

    Honestly, old Holmes looked pretty bad, man. Have another look.
     
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Larry Holmes finally retired for good after a grotesque fight with Butterbean, at age 52 (and not a nice-looking 52 either !).
    You can count back from there, plenty of dreadful spectacles.

    Holmes is the least man I'd hold as example for choosing a "perfect" time to retire.
     
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  9. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In some ways, Tyson Fury.

    Beat long-reigning HW world champion, who was undefeated for 11.5 years and defended his title 18 times.

    Then retired undefeated with perfect record 25-0 at the age of 27. Never took real punishment in any fight.
     
  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    The fact is Mercer was a top 5 heavyweight. Another fact is that Holmes was 42 and had been beaten by Spinks at the tail of his championship career and by Tyson as well.

    The fact is a full DECADE past prime Holmes was able to defeat a top 5 heavyweight!!!!!!!

    Sit back and absorb this fact especially given some in here would call me a Holmes detractor.

    The Mercer success and effort against a McCall coiming off a dramatic KO of Lewis is enough to add to his legacy. Even going the distance vs Holyfield!
    s ancient and past it against Spinks.

    I am a prime Holmes mini critic. You should see this as reason to look deeper into my post prime Holmes praise.

    Holmes was borderline pathetic bvs Spinks in their first bout. He was decent but over the hill in their second. Yet he still came back eons later and beat a Ray Mercer!!!!! He also run McCall close eaons later again!

    Compared to what he was. Yet he still beat Mercer and run McCall close despite being ancient and supposedly irrelevant. He went the distance with your man Evander.

    I am oft a Holmes detractor but lets give the man his due.

    Aside from Foreman what Heavyweight came back and made such an impact at an ancient age?
     
  11. Ken Ashcroft

    Ken Ashcroft Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Vitali Klitschko didn't have many big names on his resume though it has to be said that the division wasn't exactly overrun with big names during his time at the top. After retiring Lennox Lewis (or so Vitali fans tell me) :naughty:, he eventually won the title and defended it a few times before injuries forced his retirement. Came back a few years later and won back the title in his first fight back and then went on to defend it a further 9(?) times before retiring yet again, this time on his own terms and choice of timing. All things considered that was as good a way to end his career as he could had hoped.

    Hopefully the recent rumors of a possible comeback are totally unfounded.
     
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I understand what you are saying but I think it goes against the grain of your other examples, and against the common-sense meaning of "perfectly timed retirements".

    Lots of old former greats had some "successes" in their sad declining stages, a decade or more past their primes. Joe Louis in 1950-'51 beat some ranked fighters. Evander Holyfield arguably beat a "top 5" when he fought Valuev in 2008, at a dreadful stage of career.
    Holmes might not be as bad but it's still not good.

    I just don't see Holmes post-1985 (barring the Spinks rematch) as a good example. For him to have a perfect retirement he should have retired prior to Spinks 1, OR after Spinks 2.
    Everything after 1986 was "old man" stuff.
    And, unlike the Foreman example, Holmes already had a lengthy reign and fully satisfied career in his own era, plus he never captured the world title again in any comeback anyway.
     
  13. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    George foreman! Seems to have suffered no ill effects and made alot of money.
     
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  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I think he was misunderstood/misquoted recently.
    He was saying he thinks he can beat AJ, and says that's just his natural feeling to avenge his brother, but he also said he's doing other things now so there's no possibility of him coming back to prove it.

    I think that's what he was saying. His English isn't as good as Wladimir's, hence the misunderstanding.
     
  15. Ken Ashcroft

    Ken Ashcroft Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Is it too late for Foreman vs Holmes?